Lance
Team Buster Ledger
It's never Lupus
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Post by Lance on Sept 12, 2011 16:25:57 GMT -5
And even then, they were tossing each other around.
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Post by Morpheus on Sept 12, 2011 16:27:42 GMT -5
It's been a while, but while he put up a better fight than the rest (Absorbing Man in particular failed 2-3 times in the same issue), I remember Juggernaut being intimidated (based on the captions), and, after all, the Hulk did stop him while in motion.
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Killshot Caine
The Unstoppable Ledgernaut
You Just Mad Cuz i'm Stylin On you!
Posts: 5,732
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Post by Killshot Caine on Sept 12, 2011 16:55:21 GMT -5
Hulk is incapable of hurting Juggernaut.There isn't really much argument you can give for him. There is an argument to be made for 2 reasons, neither of which am i pushing as correct. I mention them only as i think they are worthy of discussion without the rants of fan boys. Firstly that as the Hulk gets more angry his durability has been shown to increase as well. Is it possible that the Hulks durability can get to a level quick enough that he can easily take the Juggernauts blows and they do no real damage anymore ? Secondly that do we really believe the juggernauts durability to be unlimited. Juggernauts power (strength, endurance, durability) is supplied by Cyttorak. However Cyttorak does not have unlimited power. Can the Hulks strength, which is supposedly unlimited, overcome the Juggernauts durability ? I don't think strength level has anything to do with being able to take down the Juggernaut.War Hulk is the only Hulk that has been able to really give Juggernaut a run for his money and I believe he had tech from the Celestials.Cyttorak's power may not be unlimited but Juggernaut's durability & shields are.I recall an instance where Juggernaut fought Thor and Thor has created a magical effect with Mjolnir which would void any other magical effects in the vicinity but either it didn't last long enough or even then Thor was STILL incapable of taking down the Juggernaut.
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Post by ckal on Sept 12, 2011 20:09:57 GMT -5
This honestly shouldn't be an OAFA battle, but it was created before the official rules were, so nothing much can be done about it.
Reasons it shouldn't be an OAFA battle:
1) Not using most normal and current versions of the characters (using classic versions) 2) BFR is the only option 3) Not in an approved OAFA arena
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creator
Team Buster Ledger
It's time for Powergrids 2.0
Posts: 1,217
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Post by creator on Sept 13, 2011 3:06:43 GMT -5
I don't think strength level has anything to do with being able to take down the Juggernaut.War Hulk is the only Hulk that has been able to really give Juggernaut a run for his money and I believe he had tech from the Celestials. Cyttorak's power may not be unlimited but Juggernaut's durability & shields are.I recall an instance where Juggernaut fought Thor and Thor has created a magical effect with Mjolnir which would void any other magical effects in the vicinity but either it didn't last long enough or even then Thor was STILL incapable of taking down the Juggernaut. How can a being with limited power empower Juggernaut to have unlimited durability / shields ? That is an oxymoron and makes no sense. It is simplier to say that Juggernaut's durability has been greater than attacks he has encountered to date. War Hulk appeared to be doing more than giving Juggernaut a run for his money, he was manhandling him. However WWH was a closer match to Juggernaut than classic savage Hulk because his strength and durability were so high to begin with. I would still give Juggernaut a slight edge in that match but not by much (lokking simply at strength vs strength). As for Juggernaut's fight vs Thor, Thor hurled Mjolnir which circled the area cancelling enchantments in the area (but only Juggernaut's forcefield, not his strength etc) and that allowed Thor's blows to be able to hurt Juggernaut. This would have seemed to suggest that Odin's enchantment was more powerful than Cyttoraks, at least in the short term. I think that Thor's Godblast might have pushed Juggernaut back. If this is the case, again it might show that Odin's enchantments combined with Thor's power is greater than Cyttoraks.
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Killshot Caine
The Unstoppable Ledgernaut
You Just Mad Cuz i'm Stylin On you!
Posts: 5,732
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Post by Killshot Caine on Sept 13, 2011 9:07:43 GMT -5
I don't think strength level has anything to do with being able to take down the Juggernaut.War Hulk is the only Hulk that has been able to really give Juggernaut a run for his money and I believe he had tech from the Celestials. Cyttorak's power may not be unlimited but Juggernaut's durability & shields are.I recall an instance where Juggernaut fought Thor and Thor has created a magical effect with Mjolnir which would void any other magical effects in the vicinity but either it didn't last long enough or even then Thor was STILL incapable of taking down the Juggernaut. How can a being with limited power empower Juggernaut to have unlimited durability / shields ? That is an oxymoron and makes no sense. It is simplier to say that Juggernaut's durability has been greater than attacks he has encountered to date. War Hulk appeared to be doing more than giving Juggernaut a run for his money, he was manhandling him. However WWH was a closer match to Juggernaut than classic savage Hulk because his strength and durability were so high to begin with. I would still give Juggernaut a slight edge in that match but not by much (lokking simply at strength vs strength). As for Juggernaut's fight vs Thor, Thor hurled Mjolnir which circled the area cancelling enchantments in the area (but only Juggernaut's forcefield, not his strength etc) and that allowed Thor's blows to be able to hurt Juggernaut. This would have seemed to suggest that Odin's enchantment was more powerful than Cyttoraks, at least in the short term. I think that Thor's Godblast might have pushed Juggernaut back. If this is the case, again it might show that Odin's enchantments combined with Thor's power is greater than Cyttoraks. I don't know how it works I just know what's been shown for Juggernaut.Odin being more powerful than Juggernaut and or Cyttorak is very likely but you would expect a skyfather to have powerful magic.Thor has used a god blast on the Juggernaut though and it didn't stop him.As far as Hulk though, Hulk doesn't have any magical abilities all he has is his physical strength.Even if you insist Hulk's strength is unlimited with anger the Worldbreaker couldn't do much with Juggernaut either and we've never seen anger take him further than that.
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creator
Team Buster Ledger
It's time for Powergrids 2.0
Posts: 1,217
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Post by creator on Sept 13, 2011 16:07:17 GMT -5
I don't know how it works I just know what's been shown for Juggernaut.Odin being more powerful than Juggernaut and or Cyttorak is very likely but you would expect a skyfather to have powerful magic.Thor has used a god blast on the Juggernaut though and it didn't stop him.As far as Hulk though, Hulk doesn't have any magical abilities all he has is his physical strength.Even if you insist Hulk's strength is unlimited with anger the Worldbreaker couldn't do much with Juggernaut either and we've never seen anger take him further than that. The godblast did stop and even push juggernaut back (as shown in Thor 412) i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Mjolnir/ThorMjolnir153a-Godblast412.jpgHowever I take your point that all the Hulk has is his strength to go on. He cannot simply cancel out juggernauts enchantments, his only chance being to exceed them. I believe the Hulk can get stronger than Worldbreaker or WWH has been shown to but my question to you or anyone else is, Do you believe the Hulk can get strong and durable enough to hurt juggernaut before Juggernaut beats him ?
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Killshot Caine
The Unstoppable Ledgernaut
You Just Mad Cuz i'm Stylin On you!
Posts: 5,732
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Post by Killshot Caine on Sept 15, 2011 2:15:25 GMT -5
I don't know how it works I just know what's been shown for Juggernaut.Odin being more powerful than Juggernaut and or Cyttorak is very likely but you would expect a skyfather to have powerful magic.Thor has used a god blast on the Juggernaut though and it didn't stop him.As far as Hulk though, Hulk doesn't have any magical abilities all he has is his physical strength.Even if you insist Hulk's strength is unlimited with anger the Worldbreaker couldn't do much with Juggernaut either and we've never seen anger take him further than that. The godblast did stop and even push juggernaut back (as shown in Thor 412) i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Mjolnir/ThorMjolnir153a-Godblast412.jpgHowever I take your point that all the Hulk has is his strength to go on. He cannot simply cancel out juggernauts enchantments, his only chance being to exceed them. I believe the Hulk can get stronger than Worldbreaker or WWH has been shown to but my question to you or anyone else is, Do you believe the Hulk can get strong and durable enough to hurt juggernaut before Juggernaut beats him ? When I said a Godblast didn't "stop" Juggernaut I meant it wasn't the finishing blow that defeated him.He stopped him briefly from moving forward but Juggernaut was unharmed.The New Warriors trapped Juggernaut in a steel cocoon and then Thor BFR'd him. I've never seen Hulk stronger than the Worldbreaker accept for when he was War Hulk and that Hulk was only stronger because he didn't need anger to become stronger he could control that on his own.I don't think Hulk will ever reach a level naturally in a fight with Juggernaut that will allow him to be strong enough to actually win.I see him being KO'd by Juggernaut long before then.
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creator
Team Buster Ledger
It's time for Powergrids 2.0
Posts: 1,217
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Post by creator on Sept 15, 2011 13:32:45 GMT -5
I've never seen Hulk stronger than the Worldbreaker accept for when he was War Hulk and that Hulk was only stronger because he didn't need anger to become stronger he could control that on his own.I don't think Hulk will ever reach a level naturally in a fight with Juggernaut that will allow him to be strong enough to actually win.I see him being KO'd by Juggernaut long before then. I can understand that. Well then in a straight up fight between Classic Savage Hulk and Classic Juggernaut, Juggernaut should take the win, due to his strength being sufficient to harm the Hulk while his durability is so high, that the Hulk could not hurt him.
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Post by Admin on Sept 15, 2011 18:41:49 GMT -5
I've never seen Hulk stronger than the Worldbreaker accept for when he was War Hulk and that Hulk was only stronger because he didn't need anger to become stronger he could control that on his own.I don't think Hulk will ever reach a level naturally in a fight with Juggernaut that will allow him to be strong enough to actually win.I see him being KO'd by Juggernaut long before then. Well then in a straight up fight between Classic Savage Hulk and Classic Juggernaut, Juggernaut should take the win, due to his strength being sufficient to harm the Hulk while his durability is so high, that the Hulk could not hurt him. That was the impression I've always had, but then there are those horrible examples in continuity, like Professor Hulk dropping Juggernaut with a gut-punch
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Killshot Caine
The Unstoppable Ledgernaut
You Just Mad Cuz i'm Stylin On you!
Posts: 5,732
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Post by Killshot Caine on Sept 15, 2011 19:31:30 GMT -5
like Professor Hulk dropping Juggernaut with a gut-punch Please tell me you made that up.
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Post by Admin on Sept 15, 2011 19:33:52 GMT -5
Nope. I'm not at home so I don't have my scans, but let me see if I can find it on the old google machine.
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Post by Admin on Sept 15, 2011 19:34:08 GMT -5
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Post by ckal on Sept 15, 2011 19:35:10 GMT -5
Hey that's understandable. Juggs only wears protection on his head, his torso is vulnerable.
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Killshot Caine
The Unstoppable Ledgernaut
You Just Mad Cuz i'm Stylin On you!
Posts: 5,732
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Post by Killshot Caine on Sept 15, 2011 19:38:45 GMT -5
Hey that's understandable. Juggs only wears protection on his head, his torso is vulnerable. You're joking right?
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creator
Team Buster Ledger
It's time for Powergrids 2.0
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Post by creator on Sept 16, 2011 1:24:54 GMT -5
It's not real. That is all in Banners head. Even the text mentions an illusion.
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Post by Admin on Sept 16, 2011 1:30:00 GMT -5
Banner is suffering illusions, but that was really Juggernaut, iirc (he was the 'muscle' in the base). The illusion was he thought Juggernaut was his father (as you can see in one of the panels).
I have the issue, it's just a matter of finding it.
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creator
Team Buster Ledger
It's time for Powergrids 2.0
Posts: 1,217
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Post by creator on Sept 16, 2011 6:45:21 GMT -5
Banner is suffering illusions, but that was really Juggernaut, iirc (he was the 'muscle' in the base). The illusion was he thought Juggernaut was his father (as you can see in one of the panels). I have the issue, it's just a matter of finding it. I'll take your word for it but my copy of the issue is sitting in a storage box again
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