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Post by Erik-El on Jun 2, 2011 0:07:07 GMT -5
Why would you rank Bruce higher than Stark? Because he's shown better planning and tactical intelligence constantly in my opinion. He also has a broader general knowledge and he's better at thinking on his feet. I have not known Stark to lack knowledge in any given area and you only have one thing over Stark. Which hardly warrants a rank bump. Especially when Stark has engineering over Bruce. |
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Post by Erik-El on Jun 2, 2011 0:08:59 GMT -5
I would actually put Forge at the same level as Reed through the use of his powers because he was able to find a way around Wanda's magic. I sure as hell would not. Forge sometimes does not even know what he is building. He does not understand the steps needed to build the things he builds. He decides that he wants to build a device with a specific purpose in mind and his power constructs the blueprints in his head on the how. Not Forge. |
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Post by Crom-Cruach on Jun 2, 2011 0:09:09 GMT -5
Thorbuster armor uses magic, something most big brains have a hard time wrapping their mind around. Bruce has also used magic on more the one occasion to get around problems, he even knows rituals. Plus he always half a scowl away from banging Zatanna, he has access to lots of magical knowledge. He doesn't use because he can't understand it, only because his rational mind doesn't like it. |
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Post by DedmanWalkin on Jun 2, 2011 0:09:38 GMT -5
In any case, Stark has never constructed a suit capable of standing toe to toe with Galactus nor has he come up with any solution for dealing with Galactus as he leaves that task to Reed.
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Post by Crom-Cruach on Jun 2, 2011 0:11:22 GMT -5
I have not known Stark to lack knowledge in any given area Bruce has much higher knowledge of the psychological and criminal sciences, enough to have above P.H.D levels in all of them. This is in addition to his knowledge of art and literature. He's also very much better at reading and anticipating people. And lets not forget worlds greatest detective and he can prove it. 1 rank above is reasonable. |
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Post by Erik-El on Jun 2, 2011 0:11:40 GMT -5
Thorbuster armor uses magic, something most big brains have a hard time wrapping their mind around. Bruce has also used magic on more the one occasion to get around problems, he even knows rituals. Plus he always half a scowl away from banging Zatanna, he has access to lots of magical knowledge. He doesn't use because he can't understand it, only because his rational mind doesn't like it. Knowing how to do a ritual is not indicative of intellect in the field. A parrot can memorize words. He is an infant compared to Zatanna in the field of magic. |
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Post by Erik-El on Jun 2, 2011 0:12:14 GMT -5
In any case, Stark has never constructed a suit capable of standing toe to toe with Galactus nor has he come up with any solution for dealing with Galactus as he leaves that task to Reed. What does this prove? Nothing. |
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Post by Erik-El on Jun 2, 2011 0:14:37 GMT -5
I have not known Stark to lack knowledge in any given area Bruce has much higher knowledge of the psychological and criminal sciences, enough to have above P.H.D levels in all of them. This is in addition to his knowledge of art and literature. He's also very much better at reading and anticipating people. And lets not forget worlds greatest detective and he can prove it. 1 rank above is reasonable. Most of this is just memorization. Stark can memorize entire libraries in the time it takes Batman to memorize a fraction. Memorization is not a measure of intellect. If it were, the man with a hard drive for a brain would reign supreme. |
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Post by Crom-Cruach on Jun 2, 2011 0:14:42 GMT -5
Knowing how to do a ritual is not indicative of intellect in the field. A parrot can memorize words. He is an infant compared to Zatanna in the field of magic. he doesn't just have knowledge of how to do a ritual, he has valuable knowledge of the occult, both from experience and research. He may not be Zatanna level, but she's a bonafide sorcerer. Bruce isn't he's still more competent the 95% of the non-magician heroes in DC. |
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Post by Crom-Cruach on Jun 2, 2011 0:16:52 GMT -5
Most of this is just memorization. Stark can memorize entire libraries in the time it takes Batman to memorize a fraction. Memorization is not a measure of intellect. If it were, the man with a hard drive for a brain would reign supreme. It's also experience, capacity at applying that knowledge etc. Bruce is a criminologist born. He has a keen understanding of the criminal mind, how those fields apply not just lots of data on it. All this field applicable. It's A LOT more then just memorized data. |
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Post by DedmanWalkin on Jun 2, 2011 0:17:05 GMT -5
I said Forge through the use of his powers should be at that level. He may not have to do anything to acquire the knowledge but he retains it afterwards meaning whatever his greatest invention is, he is smart enough to replicate it. If this grid was just classing raw intellect gained through standard means then maybe I would put him down lower.
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Post by Erik-El on Jun 2, 2011 0:20:54 GMT -5
I said Forge through the use of his powers should be at that level. He may not have to do anything to acquire the knowledge but he retains it afterwards meaning whatever his greatest invention is, he is smart enough to replicate it. If this grid was just classing raw intellect gained through standard means then maybe I would put him down lower. No. Just because he built it does not mean he understands it. He has built the same purpose several times before and it almost always is different each time, so replicating it is out too. His intellect is maybe above regular genius but he has no idea how some of this shit he makes works. His power lets him skip the understanding part. |
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Post by DedmanWalkin on Jun 2, 2011 0:21:05 GMT -5
It proves that Reed has built a suit that can stand toe to toe with Galactus whereas Tony has not meaning the maximum his suits are capable of is Thor or Hulk-level threats. Hulk and Thor are insignificant in comparison to Galactus. Reed is way beyond Tony. Chess is not just a game of intelligence.
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Post by Erik-El on Jun 2, 2011 0:23:31 GMT -5
Knowing how to do a ritual is not indicative of intellect in the field. A parrot can memorize words. He is an infant compared to Zatanna in the field of magic. he doesn't just have knowledge of how to do a ritual, he has valuable knowledge of the occult, both from experience and research. He may not be Zatanna level, but she's a bonafide sorcerer. Bruce isn't he's still more competent the 95% of the non-magician heroes in DC. Which says nothing for Bruce on the matters of magic. He still stubbornly refuses to acknowledge its existence unless it is the only means of winning. He does not understand magic. Again, this is just memorization. Anyone can memorize how rituals are done. I am not sure how this is a measure of any intellect at all. |
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Post by Erik-El on Jun 2, 2011 0:25:50 GMT -5
It proves that Reed has built a suit that can stand toe to toe with Galactus whereas Tony has not meaning the maximum his suits are capable of is Thor or Hulk-level threats. Hulk and Thor are insignificant in comparison to Galactus. Reed is way beyond Tony. Chess is not just a game of intelligence. False. Tony has never tried. Trying to say that he cannot simply because he has never tried is a pretty shitty argument. Tony has designed things that have killed the world several times over. Even the great Reed Richards was unable to stop these catastrophes. Hell, even Pym made Ultron. Does that make Pym smarter than Reed or Stark? Hell no. |
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Post by DedmanWalkin on Jun 2, 2011 0:27:43 GMT -5
It is different each time because he is refining it every time he reconstructs it. Tony does the same thing. Every time he constructs an armor he always improves it. He does understand his devices and can operate them without a problem. Before Madison Jeffries came along, most of Forge's toys were completely useless to the X-men. Madison Jeffries had to talk to them to figure out how to operate them. Forge invented an artificial chromosome and was able to replicate it multiple times to create new mutants.
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Post by Erik-El on Jun 2, 2011 0:31:31 GMT -5
It is different each time because he is refining it every time he reconstructs it. Tony does the same thing. Every time he constructs an armor he always improves it. He does understand his devices and can operate them without a problem. Before Madison Jeffries came along, most of Forge's toys were completely useless to the X-men. Madison Jeffries had to talk to them to figure out how to operate them. Forge invented an artificial chromosome and was able to replicate it multiple times to create new mutants. Lol no he does not. He does not refine things. He does not even think about it. The power does all this. Every time Forge does something, he desires improvement on previous things and the power gives him the blueprints to build from. You use examples of Forge's creations like that matters. It does not at all. His power does this. Forge has never built anything under his own intellect. Madison Jeffries is NOT Forge. The fact that someone else had to tell the X-Men how to use Forge's inventions should be hammering home the very fact that Forge does not always truly understand what he is building. He thinks of the purpose of the device. What he wants. That is all. The power does the rest. |
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Post by DedmanWalkin on Jun 2, 2011 0:42:37 GMT -5
Every time that Galactus has come to town, what was Tony's reaction? Call Reed. Given the amount of time that Reed is off planet, expecting him to be there every time that Galactus comes to call is ridiculous. Thor and Hulk are generally good guys and allies of Tony and yet he has a plan for if they go bad but not if Reed is out of town and Galactus, a galactic threat, comes to Earth. His trust issues disallow him from trusting his allies yet he trusts Reed to handle one of the biggest threats to the planet? Come now, he has tried to come up with a solution for Galactus and come up with nothing so he relies upon Reed.
What has Tony built that surpasses the Negative Zone Portal?
Ultron was an adaptive piece of software that Pym didn't even fully understand. It later upgraded itself without Pym's consent. Reed has created a piece of software that has faithfully run his Baxter Building for years. Doom has built better software than Pym. Pym's software is fail.
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Post by Erik-El on Jun 2, 2011 0:48:28 GMT -5
Every time that Galactus has come to town, what was Tony's reaction? Call Reed. Given the amount of time that Reed is off planet, expecting him to be there every time that Galactus comes to call is ridiculous. Thor and Hulk are generally good guys and allies of Tony and yet he has a plan for if they go bad but not if Reed is out of town and Galactus, a galactic threat, comes to Earth. His trust issues disallow him from trusting his allies yet he trusts Reed to handle one of the biggest threats to the planet? Come now, he has tried to come up with a solution for Galactus and come up with nothing so he relies upon Reed. What has Tony built that surpasses the Negative Zone Portal? Ultron was an adaptive piece of software that Pym didn't even fully understand. It later upgraded itself without Pym's consent. Reed has created a piece of software that has faithfully run his Baxter Building for years. Doom has built better software than Pym. Pym's software is fail. How many times has Tony encountered Galactus? Seriously. Reed is usually just there because Galactus is a FF villain. Tony's end of the world weapons trump a doorway to another dimension. I like how you are willing to acknowledge Pym's inferiority but fail to see that same exact logic for Forge. Despite the fact that it applies more fully to Forge than it does to Pym. |
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Post by Erik-El on Jun 2, 2011 0:53:12 GMT -5
In fact, nothing about Forge leads me to believe he is an equal to even Hank McCoy. McCoy does all he does on pure intellect.
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