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Team Buster Ledger
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Post by creator on Jun 2, 2011 12:46:36 GMT -5
What is Bishop's speed since he can travel time and space? Or Cable and Deadpool who have control over the top half of the equation? Zoom, just like those listed above, can only simulate speed. This is the same reason I do not like that teleporters get ranked at max speed just because of their ability to teleport. It is a cop out and no speed is actually implemented. Teleporation still covers distance so it is basically movement. What do you suggest ? |
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creator
Team Buster Ledger
It's time for Powergrids 2.0
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Post by creator on Jun 2, 2011 12:47:46 GMT -5
I believe Superman is faster when flying. Only since he dose not benefit from the speed force, he cannot go as fast as Flash within the atmosphere. In space, Superman's speed is ridiculous. After hearing GL calling to him for help (yeah...) in some far away galaxy or whatever, he crosses the distance in time to save GL and returns to Earth in a compressed time frame. Do we have any scans or details ? |
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creator
Team Buster Ledger
It's time for Powergrids 2.0
Posts: 1,217
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Post by creator on Jun 2, 2011 12:55:57 GMT -5
Compiled List
Rank 1
Rank 2
Rank 3
Rank 4
Rank 5
Capt America (Rogers) (R)
Rank 6
Commander Steel (R)
Hourman (R)
Robotman (Crane) (R)
Robotman (Steel) (R)
Rank 7
Rank 8
Rank 9
Rank 10
Geo-Force (F)
Speed Demon (R)
Rank 11
Rank 12
Blue Trinity (R)
Red Trinity (R)
Rank 13
Rank 14
Rank 15
Rank 16
Rank 17
Rank 18
Rank 19
Rank 20
Rank 21
Rank 22
Halo (DC) (F)
Rank 23
Jessie Quick (R)
Johnny Quick (R)
Rank 24
Max Mercury (R)
Superman – PC (F)
Rank 25
Flash (Allen) (R)
Rank 26
Rank 27
Rank 28
Green Lanterns
Silver Surfer (F)
Rank 29
Zoom (R)
Rank 30
Eternity
Living Tribunal
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Post by DedmanWalkin on Jun 2, 2011 13:45:03 GMT -5
Time Travel is something completely different from Time Manipulation, they are two different powers. Bishop's time travel capabilities allow him to cross time and space thus giving him limited control over the speed equation itself. What is his longest distance time jump and how long did it take?
Teleportation is included because different teleporters can move at different speeds. Nightcrawler can only move about 2 miles per jump which gives him a specific speed. Lila Cheney can jump several lightyears in a single jump. These grids are to rank how capable each person is at a specific thing.
I would think that Kryptonians in general would be at least 23, maybe 24 with experience.
Doomsday I would put at 24.
Martian Manhunter should probably be at least 23 if not 24.
Also that scan posted earlier of Zoom is actually Professor Zoom who should be at 25 with the Flash since he is the Negative Speed Force.
Northstar and Aurora should be at at least 22.
Wonder Woman should be somewhere near 22 or 23.
I would rank Storm at 11 for flight in an atmosphere.
Undecided:
Quicksilver's powers have fluctuated a lot. Where do we rank him?
Can Mach IV really travel at Mach IV?
Iron Man is at what now?
What speed should Thor be at flying and teleporting?
Is Vision as fast as Iron Man?
Sentry at 24?
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Post by Strafe Prower on Jun 2, 2011 13:49:25 GMT -5
I don't think Vision is as fast as Iron Man, The only speed feat I recall is his catching up to a jet that Grendel took over. He did it with ease.
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Post by Morpheus on Jun 2, 2011 13:54:20 GMT -5
Iron Man's fastest on panel recorded speed (outside of travelling to the moon and back, or the sun and back within minutes, which I don't believe are logical) is Mach 9.
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Post by DedmanWalkin on Jun 2, 2011 14:38:38 GMT -5
So that put hims at the High Superhuman rank of 13.
More people to rank:
Red Tornado
The Top
Whirlwind
Riptide
Starfire
Adam Strange both via Jetpack and via Zeta Beam.
How do we rank people who draw power from other things? I am talking people like Amazo or Animal Man or Vixen etc. Is Vixen's max speed that of a cheetah? Is Amazo at Flash Levels?
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creator
Team Buster Ledger
It's time for Powergrids 2.0
Posts: 1,217
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Post by creator on Jun 2, 2011 15:05:00 GMT -5
Iron Man's fastest on panel recorded speed (outside of travelling to the moon and back, or the sun and back within minutes, which I don't believe are logical) is Mach 9. Good to see you in the thread. I was begining to think that you weren't going to join the party  |
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Post by Erik-El on Jun 3, 2011 11:09:41 GMT -5
What is Bishop's speed since he can travel time and space? Or Cable and Deadpool who have control over the top half of the equation? Zoom, just like those listed above, can only simulate speed. This is the same reason I do not like that teleporters get ranked at max speed just because of their ability to teleport. It is a cop out and no speed is actually implemented. Teleporation still covers distance so it is basically movement. What do you suggest ? Teleportation skips the actual movement though. No transverse of space occurs. It is space A and space C while skipping space B to get there. In my opinion, teleportation should just get its own list. Some characters have teleport abilities that are better than others anyway. Nightcrawler for example is one of the most limited teleporters. |
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creator
Team Buster Ledger
It's time for Powergrids 2.0
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Post by creator on Jun 3, 2011 11:30:51 GMT -5
I don't think Vision is as fast as Iron Man, The only speed feat I recall is his catching up to a jet that Grendel took over. He did it with ease. Old Vision did not really have means of locomotion as he went immaterial (mostly) to float / glide along. |
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creator
Team Buster Ledger
It's time for Powergrids 2.0
Posts: 1,217
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Post by creator on Jun 3, 2011 11:35:25 GMT -5
Teleportation skips the actual movement though. No transverse of space occurs. It is space A and space C while skipping space B to get there. In my opinion, teleportation should just get its own list. Some characters have teleport abilities that are better than others anyway. Nightcrawler for example is one of the most limited teleporters. Originally they would have had their own list but this generates far too many grids. A speed can be calculated for Teleporters. For instance with Nightcrawler, he can cover 2 miles in a blink of an eye but he re-emerges, needs to get his next location fixed (lets say 5 seconds) and teleports onwards, covering another 2 mlies etc. So we can calculate a maximum distance over the course of an hour. Some beings like the watcher can teleport over intersteallar distances in the blink of an eye. So their speed might be something on par with the Surfers. |
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Post by Erik-El on Jun 3, 2011 11:40:40 GMT -5
I still do not believe that teleporters belong on the movement list since movement is not an actual factor in their transportation.
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creator
Team Buster Ledger
It's time for Powergrids 2.0
Posts: 1,217
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Post by creator on Jun 3, 2011 11:48:15 GMT -5
I still do not believe that teleporters belong on the movement list since movement is not an actual factor in their transportation. Well the choices appear to be 1. Create a second grid for them 2. Put them on the same grid and see how it pans out and if there is no easy fit for them, then move them off to another grid. I'll go with what you think. |
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Post by Erik-El on Jun 3, 2011 12:06:23 GMT -5
Well at the very least I think that they should be listed twice. Once for their more conventional means of movement and then the teleportation.
But then we still cannot judge how good their teleportation is. Using Nightcrawler again, he can only teleport 2 miles at a time and I understand it that going in certain directions taxes him more than others. Then he also has difficulty with loads with frequent or long distance teleportations. Yet the teleportation he can do is instantaneous.
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Post by DedmanWalkin on Jun 3, 2011 12:22:38 GMT -5
Characters can be listed multiple times on the list according to how fast they are doing each thing. Superman can fly fast but he can also run fast so he can be listed once for flying and once for running should the two speeds be different.
This grid is simply for movement which regardless of what you may think teleportation is a form of movement. Movement or motion is simply a change in position of an object with respect to time. Teleportation is a change in position of an object with respect to time. We can list the other aspects of teleportation in other grids. We aren't listing any of these other character's endurance, how many people they can accelerate to whatever speed or any of the things you listed here because we aren't looking for those things. We are looking for how fast Nightcrawler can teleport.
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Post by Erik-El on Jun 3, 2011 12:28:23 GMT -5
I agree that Superman should be listed twice for running and for flying speeds because they are very different.
There is no time for teleport. Teleportation by definition is instantaneous.
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Post by Erik-El on Jun 3, 2011 12:30:56 GMT -5
Which is another reason why I do not believe teleportation should be included in the movement speed grid. You yourself said speed is distance over time. Well teleportation directly excludes time from its equation.
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Post by DedmanWalkin on Jun 3, 2011 16:07:02 GMT -5
Teleportation is not instantaneous, there is some time involved. As long it doesn't take exactly 0 seconds, it is still speed. Daredevil can detect where Nightcrawler is going to teleport in before he teleports suggesting that there is at least a couple seconds involved in a full teleport. Albert Wesker cannot teleport but he can pull off similar feats to Nightcrawler with his Superspeed Bursts. If it can be achieved by someone with super speed then it is speed. Very few if any teleporters have 0 second teleportations.
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Post by Erik-El on Jun 3, 2011 16:10:05 GMT -5
teleport |ˈteləˌpôrt|
verb
(esp. in science fiction) transport or be transported across space and distance instantly.
instantly |ˈinstəntlē|
adverb
1 at once; immediately : she fell asleep almost instantly.
immediately |iˈmēdē-itlē|
adverb
1 at once; instantly : I called immediately for an ambulance.
2 without any intervening time or space : she was sitting immediately behind me.
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Post by Erik-El on Jun 3, 2011 16:13:54 GMT -5
Also what is the point of using a man who CANNOT teleport as a basis for your argument on how teleportation works?
Furthermore DD sensing a teleport does not mean time occurred between the teleportation. It could be as simple as Nightcrawler's intent to teleport created the appropriate pressure change for his portals. The actual teleportation still is instant. All his teleport showings depict this.
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