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Post by Erik-El on Nov 4, 2012 21:57:01 GMT -5
Okay it was 12 minutes, not hours. My bad. I struggle with this one as it appears so far out of touch with most of the other times we have seen him injured ( like taking a couple of days to recover from a broken arm). He has far above average durability so perhaps the bullet did only a tiny amount of damage. Could be the case but wouldn't stronger bones just fragment the bullet? Causing it to take even longer to heal?
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Post by creator on Nov 4, 2012 22:01:03 GMT -5
I struggle with this one as it appears so far out of touch with most of the other times we have seen him injured ( like taking a couple of days to recover from a broken arm). He has far above average durability so perhaps the bullet did only a tiny amount of damage. Could be the case but wouldn't stronger bones just fragment the bullet? Causing it to take even longer to heal? Depends if the bullet went all the way in or was stopped by the skull with some internal damage to the rain but enough to damage autonomic functions, hence body death.
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Post by Erik-El on Nov 4, 2012 22:10:16 GMT -5
Well I imagine it went through judging by the splatter on the wall behind Cap in the first scan.
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Post by Erik-El on Nov 4, 2012 22:11:43 GMT -5
If the bones were more dense, the bullet would have fragmented, making it essentially a hollow-point bullet. Which means it would have blown the back of his head off.
His bones may be harder based on all the physically demanding things he does but I am unsure if they are strong enough to have an impact on a bullet.
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Post by creator on Nov 4, 2012 23:31:12 GMT -5
I would say, Extent: major +8 Speed: major +8 Is he immune to drugs and disease ? Do we know his lifespan?
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Post by creator on Nov 4, 2012 23:34:39 GMT -5
Well I imagine it went through judging by the splatter on the wall behind Cap in the first scan. If he can recover from this, those shots to his chest when he 'died' should have been nothing. Neither should the numerous injuries including broken bones in the past. No I struggle to place this level of regen in his power set. Has there been any other times he has displayed Wolverine level regen ?
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Post by creator on Nov 4, 2012 23:35:45 GMT -5
If the bones were more dense, the bullet would have fragmented, making it essentially a hollow-point bullet. Which means it would have blown the back of his head off. His bones may be harder based on all the physically demanding things he does but I am unsure if they are strong enough to have an impact on a bullet. I don't think they were that strong either. I was stretching to explain something that should not have happened.
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Post by creator on Nov 5, 2012 0:01:38 GMT -5
Senses
Daredevil Number of Augmented Senses: 4, +4 Number of new senses: 1, +1 Breadth: Superhuman, +4 Range: x50, +3 Total: 12
Wolverine No of Senses: 3, +3 New Senses: 0 Breadth: Superhuman, +4 Range: x50, +3 Total: 10
Superman No of Senses: 5, +5 New senses: 0 Breadth: metahuman, +6 Range: 100,000,000x, +10 Total: 21
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Post by Erik-El on Nov 5, 2012 0:05:56 GMT -5
Well I imagine it went through judging by the splatter on the wall behind Cap in the first scan. If he can recover from this, those shots to his chest when he 'died' should have been nothing. Neither should the numerous injuries including broken bones in the past. No I struggle to place this level of regen in his power set. Has there been any other times he has displayed Wolverine level regen ? Here is the rub though, that gun was no ordinary gun. It was a gun that shot his soul into the time continuum. There is something to be said about the severity of the injury as well. Perhaps it is the severity that caused his healing factor to work faster than usual. No one has displayed Wolverine level regen. Even that bullet to the brain feat is not Wolverine level. X-23 took a bullet to the brain recently and was un-phased. Not only that but while Captain America revived, he was not fully healed. He was still hurt enough to need bandaging. A broken bone normally takes a human 6 - 12 weeks to heal. Captain America does it in a matter of days. So his healing factor is radically faster than a normal human's. With that in mind, I don't see how this really breaks the banner of belief. Healing nerve tissue seems common among those with healing factors. Assuming a person could normally survive a gunshot to the brain, how long should it take them to heal, excluding rehabilitation? Weeks? This feat honestly seems in line with the broken bone feats, just with a different part of his body and... self revival. If the bones were more dense, the bullet would have fragmented, making it essentially a hollow-point bullet. Which means it would have blown the back of his head off. His bones may be harder based on all the physically demanding things he does but I am unsure if they are strong enough to have an impact on a bullet. I don't think they were that strong either. I was stretching to explain something that should not have happened. Lol fair enough. But since it has happened and there are no feats that discredit the validity of the feat, aren't we supposed to consider it just like we now consider New 52 Superman's strength feat? Despite several examples of him being nowhere near that strong?
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Post by CitizenBane on Nov 5, 2012 7:10:41 GMT -5
I would say, Extent: major +8 Speed: major +8 Is he immune to drugs and disease ? Do we know his lifespan? He is virtually immune to drugs and diseases. In an early Post-Crisis story, a gas that drove the rest of the League crazy didn't affect him because of his alien DNA, and later on he was able to contain and nullify the effects of the Hourman Virus inside his body. Not even Kal Kent could do that. He's also had a Starro virus strain injected into his bloodstream, and he prevented it from controlling him by shifting his brain's location throughout his body over and over again. As for his lifespan, there are contradictions about that. In Ghosts Of Mars, the narration states that J'onn and his brother Malefic are over 225 million years old, which is more than a little absurd. A more reasonable estimate would be the time J'onn told Batman he was 40,000 years old in New Maps Of Hell. DC One Million is supposed to be the canon, ultimate future of the mainstream DC Universe, and in that story J'onn lived for another 20,000 years after the 21st century. He then had a final battle against Darkseid, and at the end of that the Source fused J'onn's essence with the planet Mars. In that form, he was still alive in the 853rd century.
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Post by CitizenBane on Nov 5, 2012 7:20:11 GMT -5
Superman's lifespan: Wally West runs to the end of time, and on the way there he encounters the death of the Earth 2.85 billion years in the future. He remarks that the only one still alive to mourn its passing is "a bearded man in bright red boots". That seems like a clear reference to Superman.
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Post by Supreme Marvel on Nov 5, 2012 8:21:32 GMT -5
That's an awesome Flash scan. Makes wanna read Flash. I only ever got into Bart Allen among the Flash family.
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Post by Erik-El on Nov 5, 2012 10:06:09 GMT -5
Flash should be trying to outrun that goatee. For shame.
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Post by creator on Nov 5, 2012 18:46:34 GMT -5
That is true but the wounds did not appear to miraculously heal up super fast. When Cap was shot in the head he was dead and yet the wound healed in 12 mins. With Cap shot in the head he had no autonomic functions and yet he still healed. I don't accept the healing factor working faster either as he was dead and as we are talking about Cap and not Wolverine, it should have been "goodnight Vienna". Getting your brains blown out and getting up 12 mins later seems like 'Wolverine-esk' type healing to me. As in its significantly superhuman. We are talking about Cap here. Peak human/ low superhuman. I can accept Cap healing a broken bone in his arm in days rather than weeks but to regrow brain matter when his heart has stopped and cellular destruction has started is something completely else. Yes we do have to consider it but if you remember, from. Long time ago, these stats should hopefully represent the character average to best performance, so we try to iron out the impact of stupid writers/editors. 52 Superman has not had a long time in print so we have to accept the shortage of feats. Cap has been in 'modern' print for a long time now and so has the luxury of a large number of feats. I recall him carrying several wounds in Civil War that did not heal up in the space of a couple of pages. I just think this feat is far above his baseline, from what I recall.
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Post by creator on Nov 5, 2012 18:50:06 GMT -5
Superman's lifespan: Wally West runs to the end of time, and on the way there he encounters the death of the Earth 2.85 billion years in the future. He remarks that the only one still alive to mourn its passing is "a bearded man in bright red boots". That seems like a clear reference to Superman. I don't think the years were additive so the man in bright red boots was still alive 2 billion years later. And i thought Flash was referring to Santa Claus
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Post by creator on Nov 5, 2012 18:55:45 GMT -5
He is virtually immune to drugs and diseases. In an early Post-Crisis story, a gas that drove the rest of the League crazy didn't affect him because of his alien DNA, and later on he was able to contain and nullify the effects of the Hourman Virus inside his body. Not even Kal Kent could do that. He's also had a Starro virus strain injected into his bloodstream, and he prevented it from controlling him by shifting his brain's location throughout his body over and over again. As for his lifespan, there are contradictions about that. In Ghosts Of Mars, the narration states that J'onn and his brother Malefic are over 225 million years old, which is more than a little absurd. A more reasonable estimate would be the time J'onn told Batman he was 40,000 years old in New Maps Of Hell. DC One Million is supposed to be the canon, ultimate future of the mainstream DC Universe, and in that story J'onn lived for another 20,000 years after the 21st century. He then had a final battle against Darkseid, and at the end of that the Source fused J'onn's essence with the planet Mars. In that form, he was still alive in the 853rd century. Ok so our best estimates are Martian Manhunter Regeneration Extent: Major +8 Speed: +8 Disease & Drugs: +2 Lifespan: 500,000 years (60,000 is above the limit of the lower rank), +6 External Source: No, +2 Total: 26
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Post by Erik-El on Nov 5, 2012 23:16:15 GMT -5
That is true but the wounds did not appear to miraculously heal up super fast. When Cap was shot in the head he was dead and yet the wound healed in 12 mins. With Cap shot in the head he had no autonomic functions and yet he still healed. I don't accept the healing factor working faster either as he was dead and as we are talking about Cap and not Wolverine, it should have been "goodnight Vienna". Well the bullet had gone completely through and we have no idea how it healed, just that the wound was still present when he revived. If Wolverine is the standard, he heals from the inside-out. Cap might have been the same way so he could still have a flesh wound but be otherwise mostly healed. Healing in the body has nothing to do with autonomic function. Human bodies attempt to heal a short time after death even. It is a cellular process, not an autonomic function. In fact, only the nervous tissue dies within minutes in a normal human. Everything else can stay alive for several hours to days and that is in a human body that uses oxygen and glucose as inefficiently as a normal human does. Getting your brains blown out and getting up 12 mins later seems like 'Wolverine-esk' type healing to me. As in its significantly superhuman. We are talking about Cap here. Peak human/ low superhuman. I can accept Cap healing a broken bone in his arm in days rather than weeks but to regrow brain matter when his heart has stopped and cellular destruction has started is something completely else. Well let's do the math. Captain America can heal in days what can take up to 12 weeks. For simplicity, let's say two days for a broken bone. That is 42 times faster than normal human healing for his regular showings, maybe even better. Plus Captain America obviously has a biological system that runs at 100% efficiency if we assume his immortality. I don't know how that compares to humans but I think it would be safe to say his body is capable of doing what a human's cannot. Yes we do have to consider it but if you remember, from. Long time ago, these stats should hopefully represent the character average to best performance, so we try to iron out the impact of stupid writers/editors. 52 Superman has not had a long time in print so we have to accept the shortage of feats. Cap has been in 'modern' print for a long time now and so has the luxury of a large number of feats. I recall him carrying several wounds in Civil War that did not heal up in the space of a couple of pages. I just think this feat is far above his baseline, from what I recall. I think that is a little unfair that a character is being penalized for not allowing his brains to be blown out on a regular. The feat doesn't seem to break the standard as far as speed, which seems to be where part of your problem with it lies. The other part being that it is brain tissue was repaired. But it would have to be able to do that considering he repaired every cell in his body (including his brain tissue) when he was first thawed from the ocean. The cell crystallization that would have occurred from the freezing would have destroyed literally every cell he had in his body. That resurrection is probably more outlandish in speed and capability than the gunshot revival. He revived there almost immediately from being thawed and when the Avengers questioned him, he kicked all their asses. The Avengers #4 1964.
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Post by creator on Nov 7, 2012 21:20:42 GMT -5
That is true but the wounds did not appear to miraculously heal up super fast. When Cap was shot in the head he was dead and yet the wound healed in 12 mins. With Cap shot in the head he had no autonomic functions and yet he still healed. I don't accept the healing factor working faster either as he was dead and as we are talking about Cap and not Wolverine, it should have been "goodnight Vienna". Well the bullet had gone completely through and we have no idea how it healed, just that the wound was still present when he revived. If Wolverine is the standard, he heals from the inside-out. Cap might have been the same way so he could still have a flesh wound but be otherwise mostly healed. Healing in the body has nothing to do with autonomic function. Human bodies attempt to heal a short time after death even. It is a cellular process, not an autonomic function. In fact, only the nervous tissue dies within minutes in a normal human. Everything else can stay alive for several hours to days and that is in a human body that uses oxygen and glucose as inefficiently as a normal human does. Well let's do the math. Captain America can heal in days what can take up to 12 weeks. For simplicity, let's say two days for a broken bone. That is 42 times faster than normal human healing for his regular showings, maybe even better. Plus Captain America obviously has a biological system that runs at 100% efficiency if we assume his immortality. I don't know how that compares to humans but I think it would be safe to say his body is capable of doing what a human's cannot. Yes we do have to consider it but if you remember, from. Long time ago, these stats should hopefully represent the character average to best performance, so we try to iron out the impact of stupid writers/editors. 52 Superman has not had a long time in print so we have to accept the shortage of feats. Cap has been in 'modern' print for a long time now and so has the luxury of a large number of feats. I recall him carrying several wounds in Civil War that did not heal up in the space of a couple of pages. I just think this feat is far above his baseline, from what I recall. I think that is a little unfair that a character is being penalized for not allowing his brains to be blown out on a regular. The feat doesn't seem to break the standard as far as speed, which seems to be where part of your problem with it lies. The other part being that it is brain tissue was repaired. But it would have to be able to do that considering he repaired every cell in his body (including his brain tissue) when he was first thawed from the ocean. The cell crystallization that would have occurred from the freezing would have destroyed literally every cell he had in his body. That resurrection is probably more outlandish in speed and capability than the gunshot revival. He revived there almost immediately from being thawed and when the Avengers questioned him, he kicked all their asses. The Avengers #4 1964. I'm still not happy because we have 40 yrs of baseline feats for him that showed when he gets injured, he does not regenerate immediately. I don't penalize him for not being shot up all the time but I do take with a grain of salt 1 'super' feat, just like I have with other characters who have a long history. I have always said we should seek the sustainable feat level e.g. Feats levels that have been repeated time and again. His being frozen is pseudo science cryogenics and as such they did not have his entire cellular structure damaged by ice but merely put in to cryogenic hibernation. Well I guess I'm going to have to rescore him.
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Post by Erik-El on Nov 7, 2012 21:26:04 GMT -5
We don't necessarily have to count the gunshot to the noggin feat but I personally don't see how it is more unbelievable than the 42x human healing major injuries. From my point of view, they are equal feats only on different parts of the body.
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Post by creator on Nov 7, 2012 23:05:12 GMT -5
We don't necessarily have to count the gunshot to the noggin feat but I personally don't see how it is more unbelievable than the 42x human healing major injuries. From my point of view, they are equal feats only on different parts of the body. The brain is more complex and then we also deal with healing the physical laid down pathways that form memories. There is also the thought that some writers obviously share that cutting the head off a regenerator might stop them cold. In much the same way, I can see Cap healing body damage but blowing half his brains out is pretty devastating. Anyhow, if you don't mind, I'm going with your recommendation on this one. So where would you put Cap on the rankings?
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