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Post by NorCalCO on Mar 30, 2011 10:24:24 GMT -5
Lee, I think they could do a quick recap in the opening credits/cinematic of an alien invasion and Norman "saves the day" or whatever (him taking power for just shooting the Queen is so dumb LOL)......... Yeah a more plausible explanation for a murdering psychopath taking control of the Nations top law enforcement agency probably wouldn't be a bad thing.  |
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Post by Erik-El on Mar 30, 2011 10:55:33 GMT -5
Well, it is not like they just handed things over to Norman fresh out of the funny farm.
He had already been building up his political reputation for quite some time before that.
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Post by NorCalCO on Mar 30, 2011 11:27:56 GMT -5
Well, it is not like they just handed things over to Norman fresh out of the funny farm. He had already been building up his political reputation for quite some time before that. I still don't think it's that believable of a concept given his over-all history and the single act that served as the catalyst for the whole H.A.M.M.E.R. / Norman in power / Dark Reign situation. Don't get me wrong, I loved Dark Reign but that won't change my opinion about what brought it on. |
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Post by Erik-El on Mar 30, 2011 11:58:14 GMT -5
It seems to me that you just do not have a full understanding of what caused it.
SHIELD had been pissing off the United States for a long time. Fury basically ruined it for SHIELD with his Secret War, Hill was put in place to be a more compliant Director but she handed over the reigns to Stark. Stark made his own set of enemies in politics as well.
SHIELD was basically already going down the tube by the time Secret Invasion happened. That was just the straw that broke the camel's back really.
Norman was by that time, very popular with politicians. He was well liked because he was pretty much just like them. Then he took the shot heard around the world so to speak and politicians had their man.
His overall history was proven to be either Spider-Man abducting him and forcing him to do those things or temporary insanity. None of which were legally allowed to be deciding factors against him for anything. And as I already said, he had already built up quite the reputation by that time anyway.
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Post by NorCalCO on Mar 30, 2011 12:09:30 GMT -5
It seems to me that you just do not have a full understanding of what caused it. Or it's possible we just have different opinions. |
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Post by Erik-El on Mar 30, 2011 12:56:40 GMT -5
It seems to me that you just do not have a full understanding of what caused it. Or it's possible we just have different opinions. Well be honest, did you actually already know all that stuff? Most everyone I talk to about it does not because they do not follow all the necessary titles to get all that information. It takes far less than saving the human species to get put into political power. So Norman doing just that pretty much guaranteed it. |
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Post by NorCalCO on Mar 30, 2011 13:09:28 GMT -5
I knew the broad strokes about the Thunderbolts, etc. but hadn't read a tremendous amount of current stuff involving Osborn. It's pretty widely understood that he is a "bad guy" though. That's why this seems far-fetched to me. Even the Thunderbolts are "reformed" super villians. That's the crowd he is associated with. To me this would be akin to Charles Manson paroling and being named director of the FBI at some point. Do I have your intimate knowledge about every detail of Norman Osborn before Secret Invasion / Dark Reign? No. Do I have a strong opinion about a murdering psychopath being named Director of the Nations top law enforcement agency? Absolutely. It's also unlikely that my having read all the stuff you are referring to would change my opinion and, FWIW, I do have a very good understanding of how many people Fury / Stark / Hill pissed off while heading S.H.I.E.L.D. I still don't think that justifies giving that type of power to Norman Osborn.
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Post by Erik-El on Mar 30, 2011 13:16:29 GMT -5
It is only widespread knowledge to the super hero community. The general public does not know about that stuff. That is why Clint made headlines when he called out Norman on his crazy. That is why his insanity was a shocker to some of the higher ups in the Marvel U government. Especially when Norman doctored evidence of his innocence. Norman ran the Thunderbolts not because he is a reformed villain but because he is a politician.
Furthermore, politicians hate (and I stress the word hate) super heroes in the Marvel U. Norman becoming a victim to one of them only served his political agenda. Not many are privy to his murdering psychopathic nature. You should give the writers more credit than that. No one would buy into the idea that people would really put an evil man in power knowing he is evil.
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Post by NorCalCO on Mar 30, 2011 13:21:23 GMT -5
A simple vetting process would have revealed a lot of Norman's past prior to his appointment. You're telling me we can find out about minor traffic infractions 20 years ago and any other little thing under the sun, but not that Norman Osborn is a murdering psycho? Come on.
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Post by Erik-El on Mar 30, 2011 13:30:56 GMT -5
Yes. I am telling you that men with power and money can cover up dirty little secrets. And again, not only were secrets covered up, but evidence was doctored and he had plenty of evidence to his "mental health" that gave him a free pass.
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Post by NorCalCO on Mar 30, 2011 13:43:55 GMT -5
You make a lot of good points, as I feel I do. Likely we'd both find plenty of people to side with each of us in our opinion. Thanks for the strong debate!
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Post by Erik-El on Mar 30, 2011 13:44:57 GMT -5
You make a lot of good points, as I feel I do. Likely we'd both find plenty of people to side with each of us in our opinion. Thanks for the strong debate! Always a pleasure when debates go well. |
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Post by Admin on Mar 30, 2011 15:24:52 GMT -5
Nice back and forth. Erik, you ever play any of the MUA games?
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Post by Erik-El on Mar 30, 2011 15:29:46 GMT -5
Unfortunately no. I fell out of gaming right around the time where X-Men Legends one first hit the shelves.
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Post by Admin on Mar 30, 2011 15:33:38 GMT -5
*spits drink*
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Post by Erik-El on Mar 30, 2011 15:34:31 GMT -5
Lol.
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Post by Admin on Mar 30, 2011 15:36:43 GMT -5
Just in case you never saw anything regarding the second, here's a trailer:
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Post by Erik-El on Mar 30, 2011 15:40:38 GMT -5
That trailer was actually pretty cool. I do not usually hear actual songs put in trailers. Usually it is just a metal/techno type music in the background.
On a hilarious note, the game never misled anyone on what they provide. It does say right in the trailer that choosing sides is just the beginning. Towards the middle and end, you join forces. BAM!
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Post by Admin on Mar 30, 2011 15:45:52 GMT -5
Putting real songs in video game trailers has been popular for some time now.
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Post by Erik-El on Mar 30, 2011 15:49:15 GMT -5
Putting real songs in video game trailers has been popular for some time now. Oh so you want to further point out just how out of date I am in the gaming world eh? |
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