|
|
Post by Khaos King on May 25, 2011 11:36:37 GMT -5
Are these two complete opposite of each or are they more similar then each would hate to think? forget about one having innate mutant power and the other not, i want to talk about what made these men what they are on an intellectual level and if their actions, hate or self defense is truly justified. This is a pretty dicey topic that most walk away from but i really want to see what makes magneto tick. tell me what you think, i am all ears but also try to keep it civil  |
|
|
|
Post by Power NeXus on May 25, 2011 12:21:58 GMT -5
To me, Maggy has always seemed almost exactly like Hitler. He believes his race is the dominant one and that all other races are parasites on the earth, to the point that he is willing to wage war and cause mass genocide/extermination of these other races.
|
|
nelomaxwell
Team Buster Ledger
This groove F***kin suits me, swag two button
Posts: 1,668
|
Post by nelomaxwell on May 25, 2011 12:29:40 GMT -5
That's funny because Mags was based on Malcolm X last I checked. That said i disagree, i believe he is very much Malcolm X he distraught and angry but not a raving lunatic. If he was he wouldn't be comfortable at Utopia which is a haven for mutants but there are still humans supporting and siding with them. I site the quote from Malcolm when asked would he tell black people to put down their guns, to which he replied "when your people put their guns down we'll put ours down."
|
|
|
|
Post by Erik-El on May 25, 2011 12:30:17 GMT -5
I disagree with the Hitler association. Magneto acts out of fear to defend his people. In his eyes, he was saving mutant kind. Hitler just wiped others out because he felt they were inferior and deserved it. Magneto would never have declared war on humans had mutants not have been oppressed, hunted and killed.
I see Magneto more along the lines of what a Holocaust prisoner might have done had he had Magneto's power and intellect.
|
|
|
|
Post by Phantom Stargrave on May 25, 2011 12:43:03 GMT -5
Then again, Hitler would never have killed anyone had Germany not been thrown into the gutter after WW1. I do think it's quite overblown, but there is that tiny little aspect of Magneto's personality which resonates quite well with Hitler, and I think this idea that he has the potential to fall to the same ethical depths as the man who is indirectly responsible for his creation is part of the character's charm. Grant Morrison seems to think so...  But mostly I think Nelo has it right. Magneto was based on Malcom X, as opposed to Xavier's Martin Luther King. |
|
|
|
Post by Khaos King on May 25, 2011 12:45:38 GMT -5
I disagree with the Hitler association. Magneto acts out of fear to defend his people. In his eyes, he was saving mutant kind. Hitler just wiped others out because he felt they were inferior and deserved it. Magneto would never have declared war on humans had mutants not have been oppressed, hunted and killed. I see Magneto more along the lines of what a Holocaust prisoner might have done had he had Magneto's power and intellect. Hitler felt that germany was being victimized by the rest of europe after WW1 which various nations were exploiting german resources, land and wealth to the point that Germany was in a depression. |
|
|
|
Post by Power NeXus on May 25, 2011 12:57:04 GMT -5
I disagree with the Hitler association. Magneto acts out of fear to defend his people. In his eyes, he was saving mutant kind. Hitler just wiped others out because he felt they were inferior and deserved it. Magneto would never have declared war on humans had mutants not have been oppressed, hunted and killed. I see Magneto more along the lines of what a Holocaust prisoner might have done had he had Magneto's power and intellect. Perhaps associating Maggs with Hitler so much just comes from the fact that I've been re-reading a lot of Ultimate comics lately. Mainstream Magneto may be acting out of fear for the survival of his people, but Ultimate Magneto just outright despises all homo sapiens. |
|
|
|
Post by Khaos King on May 25, 2011 13:21:56 GMT -5
aside from Magneto being originally based on Malcolm X is it so hard to believe that he would and could become Hitlerish as it has been thrown in his face by various characters in one form or another from Xavier, Cyclops, Wolverine?
Magneto in 616 has also made some pretty racial blatant comments on humans in the past
|
|
|
|
Post by Erik-El on May 25, 2011 13:37:58 GMT -5
I disagree with the Hitler association. Magneto acts out of fear to defend his people. In his eyes, he was saving mutant kind. Hitler just wiped others out because he felt they were inferior and deserved it. Magneto would never have declared war on humans had mutants not have been oppressed, hunted and killed. I see Magneto more along the lines of what a Holocaust prisoner might have done had he had Magneto's power and intellect. Hitler felt that germany was being victimized by the rest of europe after WW1 which various nations were exploiting german resources, land and wealth to the point that Germany was in a depression. Hitler did not start up the holocaust because of the events of WWI. He did it because he was a racist and suffered from paranoia. |
|
|
|
Post by Khaos King on May 25, 2011 14:01:22 GMT -5
Hitler felt that germany was being victimized by the rest of europe after WW1 which various nations were exploiting german resources, land and wealth to the point that Germany was in a depression. Hitler did not start up the holocaust because of the events of WWI. He did it because he was a racist and suffered from paranoia. My point is that Hitler felt he and his people were being victimized and exploited by various people one in particular the jews which he felt he had the right to do what he did. He used what happen during and after WW1 as an excuse for his hate toward groups of people and rile them up into action. So in a sense Hitler did feel he was being oppressed and victimized however paranoid it may have been, i wasnt there but from my historical stand point he wasnt far off from the truth about how germans were being exploited by other european nations after WW1 |
|
nelomaxwell
Team Buster Ledger
This groove F***kin suits me, swag two button
Posts: 1,668
|
Post by nelomaxwell on May 25, 2011 14:11:32 GMT -5
aside from Magneto being originally based on Malcolm X is it so hard to believe that he would and could become Hitlerish as it has been thrown in his face by various characters in one form or another from Xavier, Cyclops, Wolverine? Magneto in 616 has also made some pretty racial blatant comments on humans in the past Are you implying that Malcolm X could become akin to Hitler? I personally think that's an insane thought. He was a segregationist as is Mag. I doubt either would be a mass murdered (Especially not Malcolm) Mag just wants some of his own. Ult Mag i can't speak on. |
|
|
|
Post by Khaos King on May 25, 2011 14:13:57 GMT -5
no, i am implying that aside from Magneto starting off as a passionate Malcolm X type character could he not forceably be seen becoming Hitlerish especially what he went through 1st hand and his justification of his actions?
is it so hard to believe that Magneto became what he hated?
i know he has admitted it to himself more than once and has been accused by others.
|
|
nelomaxwell
Team Buster Ledger
This groove F***kin suits me, swag two button
Posts: 1,668
|
Post by nelomaxwell on May 25, 2011 14:20:22 GMT -5
I see what you're saying but I disagree in that he is a man driven but not insane. Magnus will give as good as he gets but he knows what it is he wants and it's not extermination it's peace and prosperity for mutants.
|
|
|
|
Post by Phantom Stargrave on May 25, 2011 14:22:25 GMT -5
Hitler did not start up the holocaust because of the events of WWI. He did it because he was a racist and suffered from paranoia. Actually, he kinda did. Mostly because he needed someone to blame (both psychologically and politically) for Germany's defeat, and found Jews and communists to be adequate targets. |
|
|
|
Post by Khaos King on May 25, 2011 14:29:44 GMT -5
Hitler did not start up the holocaust because of the events of WWI. He did it because he was a racist and suffered from paranoia. Actually, he kinda did. Mostly because he needed someone to blame (both psychologically and politically) for Germany's defeat, and found Jews and communists to be adequate targets. i would have blamed politicians and aristocrats/rich people. parallels the mutant hate in comics with politicians being as close to being mutants as we can get  |
|
|
|
Post by Khaos King on May 25, 2011 14:32:44 GMT -5
I see what you're saying but I disagree in that he is a man driven but not insane. Magnus will give as good as he gets but he knows what it is he wants and it's not extermination it's peace and prosperity for mutants. you know early in his career he tried to raise fully active volcanoes to wipe out certain countries or have them submit to his rule. he also had in house of M his own mutant dominated world where human's were second class citizens which reminded me early history of minorities in germany who were forced to wear star of david to identify them... Magneto is somewhat complex as in he sometimes cares about humans and sometimes he is indifferent due to it being war. |
|
|
|
Post by Phantom Stargrave on May 25, 2011 14:44:32 GMT -5
i would have blamed politicians and aristocrats/rich people. parallels the mutant hate in comics with politicians being as close to being mutants as we can get That would kinda be bad if you're trying to get those people and their money on your side.  Besides, this is basically what communists did, and Hitler was strongly anti-communist. |
|
|
|
Post by Khaos King on May 25, 2011 14:53:54 GMT -5
but he was a socialist a controlled form of communism and capitalism.
Magneto and Hitler were both trying to create a better world although from a different view of what is better hence the justification of killing human's and starting wars, battles with other countries military and usurping of other's nations (Genosha)
|
|
|
|
Post by DedmanWalkin on May 25, 2011 15:25:31 GMT -5
It seems that at least some of DC's magnetism manipulators suffer a psychological defect that causes them to be somewhat bipolar. Perhaps this is true of Magneto as well, this is why sometimes we get the megalomaniacal Magneto and sometimes we get the more magnanimous Magneto. Sometimes he can be like Hitler but then other times he can be more like Malcolm X depending on which pole happens to be dominant in him. Given the number of times that he has both attacked and allied himself with the X-men, this seems a distinct possibility.
Ultimate Magneto is essentially Hitler, though. We have seen very little potential for good in Ultimate Magneto unlike his 616 counterpart.
|
|
|
|
Post by Khaos King on May 25, 2011 15:36:29 GMT -5
It seems that at least some of DC's magnetism manipulators suffer a psychological defect that causes them to be somewhat bipolar. Perhaps this is true of Magneto as well, this is why sometimes we get the megalomaniacal Magneto and sometimes we get the more magnanimous Magneto. Sometimes he can be like Hitler but then other times he can be more like Malcolm X depending on which pole happens to be dominant in him. Given the number of times that he has both attacked and allied himself with the X-men, this seems a distinct possibility. Ultimate Magneto is essentially Hitler, though. We have seen very little potential for good in Ultimate Magneto unlike his 616 counterpart. that i just reaching with the bipolar thing and trying to somehow mesh it with what happens over at DC.. Magneto is just nuts and passionate at times and other time seems to be contend and unwilling... Hitler was like that too in that he didnt really want to kill other white europeans during war but was okay in killing others. *confused* |
|
