Beatboks
Team Buster Ledger
Posts: 2,206
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Post by Beatboks on Sept 26, 2012 8:02:16 GMT -5
Jaime's "infighting" with the scarab is limited to a reminder now and then to always opt for non-lethal methods in combat. He's never had a problem getting the scarab to do what he wants in a normal situation so I'm not sure what's there to capitalize on from that angle. My guess would be this stems from the knowledge some get of characters solely from animation. For example IIRC ( I watched it with my son - there's a good reason to have kid's an excuse to watch cartons in your 50's) In Batman Brave and the Bold the BB armor fought against Jaimie and battles the GLC on it's own.
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HyperGod
Jobber Ledger
Ehl Oh Ehl
Posts: 39
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Post by HyperGod on Sept 26, 2012 13:23:03 GMT -5
If his family is threatened , then Reed can be worse than cold-blooded . You're missing the context there. I wasn't saying Reed wouldn't do what's necessary to protect the family, I'm saying he doesn't have the professional experience to capitalize on Jaime's supposed infighting with the Scarab, like Deadman said. He's smart, but a master manipulator he is not. [/b][/quote] I didn't miss anything . Right off the bat he had no problem hacking the Time Variance Authority's computer systems , an action which ended up altering the very fabric of reality of the 616 timeline . He would have no problem doing something similar to the scarab in an extended combat scenario . He isn't considered one of the smartest beings in the multiverse for nothing you know . he can easily hack the Scarab's systems to incapacitate BB I seriously doubt that. Given a few days/weeks to study it, maybe. Right off the bat in a random encounter? Not an effing chance. If you're basing this premise off of the idea that the Scarab has never been hacked before , then it becomes a ridiculous No-Limits-Fallacy , considering how Reed has pulled of crazier sh1t right off the bat inc comics before .
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Post by Phantom Stargrave on Sept 26, 2012 18:51:46 GMT -5
Yeah, you did. The issue here isn't one of hacking. Capitalizing on the divide between Jaime and the scarab (Minute as it is, but that's irrelevant right now), is a matter of psychological manipulation. Now Reed is smart, yes. But he is also at least somewhat socially inept, and manipulation is the one thing he shouldn't be good at. That's what people like Nick Fury and Black Widow are for. What you're doing is taking two issues, 1)hacking the scarab and 2) Using Jaime and the scarab against each other, which is what Deadman and I were talking about, and blending them into one. Haven't read it, but I'm guessing the TVA's computer had... A keyboard? Or maybe it was voice activated? Or maybe Reed had a gizmo with him, but there was some sort of interface which allowed him to enter the machine and work his magic. You know, the exact thing the scarab doesn't have. Even Reed can't break the laws of logic. In order to hack into anything, he needs a way inside it, and the scarab will only interface with one person: Jaime. Remember, this is a random encounter. Reed doesn't have his gadgets with him. He isn't allowed to bring his Alien Tech Ad-Hoc Interface Unit (TM) to the fight. He's not allowed to pop to his lab and just take any random Deux ex Machina he has lying on the floor. He is without his tech here, and unless he can turn his fingers into wires or something and plug himself directly into the scarab, there will be no hacking. Negative. I'm basing it on the fact that the scarab is an incredibly advanced piece of alien technology... And Reed has nothing to hack it with.
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HyperGod
Jobber Ledger
Ehl Oh Ehl
Posts: 39
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Post by HyperGod on Sept 26, 2012 23:37:22 GMT -5
Yeah, you did. The issue here isn't one of hacking. Capitalizing on the divide between Jaime and the scarab (Minute as it is, but that's irrelevant right now), is a matter of psychological manipulation. Now Reed is smart, yes. But he is also at least somewhat socially inept, and manipulation is the one thing he shouldn't be good at. That's what people like Nick Fury and Black Widow are for. Nope . Hacking the scarab is the only issue I raised , and I gave a reason that why I think such a strategy would work . The Jaime/Scarab divide is an issue you raised , not me . I don't really find it relevant at all to be honest . What you're doing is taking two issues, 1)hacking the scarab and 2) Using Jaime and the scarab against each other, which is what Deadman and I were talking about, and blending them into one. Again , I never mentioned the 2nd part of what you allege that I am confusing . In my original post I merely pointed out that if Reed's family is threatened , he can be worse than cold-blooded . My points have been pretty straight-forward so far .Then you should continue to discuss it with Deadman . Haven't read it, but I'm guessing the TVA's computer had... A keyboard? Or maybe it was voice activated? Or maybe Reed had a gizmo with him, but there was some sort of interface which allowed him to enter the machine and work his magic. You know, the exact thing the scarab doesn't have. Even Reed can't break the laws of logic. In order to hack into anything, he needs a way inside it, and the scarab will only interface with one person: Jaime. Remember, this is a random encounter. Reed doesn't have his gadgets with him. He isn't allowed to bring his Alien Tech Ad-Hoc Interface Unit (TM) to the fight. He's not allowed to pop to his lab and just take any random Deux ex Machina he has lying on the floor. He is without his tech here, and unless he can turn his fingers into wires or something and plug himself directly into the scarab, there will be no hacking. He placed a worm program into their systems . From Fantastic Four v1 # 354 : The OP merely mentions no prep , it doesn't specify that the characters are without their standard equipment . Just because its a random encounter , doesn't mean that Reed won't be allowed to go to his lab , or do any of the other stuff you are barring him from doing . Anyways , hacking was only one of the ways I suggested the F4 could beat him . Sue has shown greater proficiency over her powers as of late , and Johnny has received a major upgrade(in the form of the CCR). Even if you remove the more non-lethal option of just disabling Jaime via hacking the Scarab , I don't see him winning against present F4 . Btw , this is off-topic , but when you take Reed's elasticity into account , him being able to turn his fingers into wires becomes a plausible scenario . Negative. I'm basing it on the fact that the scarab is an incredibly advanced piece of alien technology... And Reed has nothing to hack it with. Ok .
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Post by Phantom Stargrave on Sept 28, 2012 8:07:25 GMT -5
Nope . Hacking the scarab is the only issue I raised , and I gave a reason that why I think such a strategy would work . The Jaime/Scarab divide is an issue you raised , not me . I don't really find it relevant at all to be honest . Again , I never mentioned the 2nd part of what you allege that I am confusing . In my original post I merely pointed out that if Reed's family is threatened , he can be worse than cold-blooded . My points have been pretty straight-forward so far .Then you should continue to discuss it with Deadman . Deadman and I had and finished the "cold-blooded professional" discussion 8 months ago. You then quoted my post and said Reed can indeed be cold-blooded under the right circumstances. I replied to this and said It's not the cold-blooded part that's the problem, it's the professional part. You then quoted my post saying this and responded with the Time Variance Authority example. Do you see where the confusion is coming from? Well now you have to show what standard equipment means for Reed (To my knowledge it means his suit and didly squat more), and prove that the Alien Tech Ad-Hoc Interface Unit (TM) is a part of it. Likewise, being in a random encounter pretty much does bar him from going to his lab and picking up the stuff he needs. Random encounters are supposed to be battles with the least number of variables and outside influences possible. Had the OP wanted him to have his gadgets in this fight, he would have just given it to them. That's fair. I kinda doubt they're on BB's level, but I haven't read FF in a long while so won't argue it. I'd honestly need a precedent to accept that. There's a difference between elastic and "can rearrange molecular structure to send electric impulses into computers through his fingers."
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HyperGod
Jobber Ledger
Ehl Oh Ehl
Posts: 39
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Post by HyperGod on Sept 29, 2012 2:01:44 GMT -5
Nope . Hacking the scarab is the only issue I raised , and I gave a reason that why I think such a strategy would work . The Jaime/Scarab divide is an issue you raised , not me . I don't really find it relevant at all to be honest . Again , I never mentioned the 2nd part of what you allege that I am confusing . In my original post I merely pointed out that if Reed's family is threatened , he can be worse than cold-blooded . My points have been pretty straight-forward so far .Then you should continue to discuss it with Deadman . Deadman and I had and finished the "cold-blooded professional" discussion 8 months ago. You then quoted my post and said Reed can indeed be cold-blooded under the right circumstances. I replied to this and said It's not the cold-blooded part that's the problem, it's the professional part. You then quoted my post saying this and responded with the Time Variance Authority example. Do you see where the confusion is coming from? Nope , I just mentioned that he is capable of being cold-blooded , that's all . I do realize that your posts were quite old , but I was new to this forum(and still am in a manner of speaking) . Also , what's your definition of professional here ? Reed has put his own son down before , when Franklin's powers threatened to kill all life on Earth . He didn't hesitate to commit domestic violence against Sue when she went crazy with the Malice gimmick . Reed can be(and has been) pretty ruthless when the situation demanded it . Well now you have to show what standard equipment means for Reed (To my knowledge it means his suit and didly squat more), and prove that the Alien Tech Ad-Hoc Interface Unit (TM) is a part of it. Likewise, being in a random encounter pretty much does bar him from going to his lab and picking up the stuff he needs. Random encounters are supposed to be battles with the least number of variables and outside influences possible. Had the OP wanted him to have his gadgets in this fight, he would have just given it to them. Reed's standard equipment is whatever paraphernalia he and the F4 carry around on the Fantasticar(which is part of their standard equipment) . Reed and the rest of the F4's suits are also outfitted with onboard computer systems , with which the team can form a network link etc. etc. Had the OP not wanted him to have his toys , he would have specified so . That's fair. I kinda doubt they're on BB's level, but I haven't read FF in a long while so won't argue it. This is one of the strongest iterations of the F4 that I recall in recent history . You really need to read the War of the Four Cities and the Celestials Saga to understand that the F4 have acome a long way . I'd honestly need a precedent to accept that. There's a difference between elastic and "can rearrange molecular structure to send electric impulses into computers through his fingers." I meant that in the context of shape and geometric proportions , not all the physical abilities(like conductivity etc.) . However , Reed has formed filament like structures with his finger tips , and has used it to uplink his bodysuit's computer systems to other computers before . So that's that .
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