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Post by Erik-El on Jun 7, 2011 16:45:38 GMT -5
Another thought, does inertia effect Wonder Woman? I think all characters that can fly unaided save through force of will have some kind of resistance to inertia.
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Post by Supreme Marvel on Jun 7, 2011 17:02:19 GMT -5
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Post by Erik-El on Jun 7, 2011 17:08:33 GMT -5
But did Hermes escape the black hole after he stole Flash's speed?
Flash was faster than him but he did state that he would have to actually try to catch him, which I think says a lot about what Hermes and Diana are capable of.
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Post by Supreme Marvel on Jun 7, 2011 17:14:23 GMT -5
But did Hermes escape the black hole after he stole Flash's speed? Flash was faster than him but he did state that he would have to actually try to catch him, which I think says a lot about what Hermes and Diana are capable of. He states Mercury, but it's basically the same god really.
It wouldn't have got that much speed from Flash. Flash could only go Mach 1. I don't think that would have helped him greatly. I just think he was showing off. As Wally kept saying.
Diana is capable of a lot. She gets great writers as well. Imagine Captain Marvel then, with the power of 6 gods. If only someone had the courage of Achilles to write him and the wisdom of Solomon to write him good.
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Post by Erik-El on Jun 7, 2011 17:19:23 GMT -5
Hermes and Mercury are two halves of one being. Or rather, the Greek gods made avatars (the Roman gods) and divided their power evenly between them.
So when I say that Diana is as fast as Hermes, that also means she is as fast as Mercury. BUT she is not as fast as Hermes/Mercury once they became one being again.
Since I have not read the issues of this arc, I cannot tell which version Flash is fighting. Hermes? Mercury? Or Hermes/Mercury?
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Post by Supreme Marvel on Jun 7, 2011 17:24:48 GMT -5
Hermes and Mercury are two halves of one being. Or rather, the Greek gods made avatars (the Roman gods) and divided their power evenly between them. So when I say that Diana is as fast as Hermes, that also means she is as fast as Mercury. BUT she is not as fast as Hermes/Mercury once they became one being again. Since I have not read the issues of this arc, I cannot tell which version Flash is fighting. Hermes? Mercury? Or Hermes/Mercury? Both are in it, and he's fighting Mercury.
I didn't know the split thing. That just makes it more impressive. Does that mean Jupiter an Zeus are split in power?
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Post by Erik-El on Jun 7, 2011 17:27:05 GMT -5
Hermes and Mercury are two halves of one being. Or rather, the Greek gods made avatars (the Roman gods) and divided their power evenly between them. So when I say that Diana is as fast as Hermes, that also means she is as fast as Mercury. BUT she is not as fast as Hermes/Mercury once they became one being again. Since I have not read the issues of this arc, I cannot tell which version Flash is fighting. Hermes? Mercury? Or Hermes/Mercury? Both are in it, and he's fighting Mercury.
I didn't know the split thing. That just makes it more impressive. Does that mean Jupiter an Zeus are split in power?Yes but sometime after, all the Greek gods and Roman gods merge again. There was even an issue where Jupiter/Zeus was having an identity crisis over it.
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Post by Supreme Marvel on Jun 7, 2011 17:30:54 GMT -5
So, if they merged, Jupiter and Zeus, would it just be Zeus at full power? Since he was the first King of the Gods from them. AND, would he be powerful enough to fight Darkseid? The merged Jupiter and Zeus.
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Post by Phantom Stargrave on Jun 7, 2011 17:33:00 GMT -5
Can we focus on Diana's and CM's actual feats instead of the feats of those they draw power from?
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Post by Erik-El on Jun 7, 2011 17:34:34 GMT -5
Can we focus on Diana's and CM's actual feats instead of the feats of those they draw power from? Diana does not draw power from Hermes. Hermes feats are relevant because she literally has his equal speed.
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Post by Phantom Stargrave on Jun 7, 2011 17:37:04 GMT -5
Can we focus on Diana's and CM's actual feats instead of the feats of those they draw power from? Diana does not draw power from Hermes. Hermes feats are relevant because she literally has his equal speed. We know this how? Have they raced?
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Post by Erik-El on Jun 7, 2011 17:37:14 GMT -5
So, if they merged, Jupiter and Zeus, would it just be Zeus at full power? Since he was the first King of the Gods from them. AND, would he be powerful enough to fight Darkseid? The merged Jupiter and Zeus. I have no idea about fighting Darkseid but I know that Zues is at half his power without Jupiter, same as all the Greek/Roman gods.
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Post by Erik-El on Jun 7, 2011 17:38:07 GMT -5
Diana does not draw power from Hermes. Hermes feats are relevant because she literally has his equal speed. We know this how? Have they raced? We know this because it was his gift to her at her creation and it states it several times in her series.
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Post by Phantom Stargrave on Jun 7, 2011 17:43:34 GMT -5
We know this because it was his gift to her at her creation and it states it several times in her series. And that could just as well be hyperbole. It can also mean he speed stems from Hermes, not that she has the exact speed of Hermes. The point is that any such evidence is circumstantial at best. You can say she could have the speed of Hermes, you can say she should have the speed of Hermes, but without her actually displaying that speed firsthand, it remains coulda woulda shoulda.
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Post by Erik-El on Jun 7, 2011 17:49:57 GMT -5
We know this because it was his gift to her at her creation and it states it several times in her series. And that could just as well be hyperbole. It can also mean he speed stems from Hermes, not that she has the exact speed of Hermes. The point is that any such evidence is circumstantial at best. You can say she could have the speed of Hermes, you can say she should have the speed of Hermes, but without her actually displaying that speed firsthand, it remains coulda woulda shoulda. I am not sure why these facts make you so uncomfortable. Hermes states very specifically that he gifts her with his speed. Furthermore, it states that she has his speed at the beginning of every issue in her third volume. It is not hyperbole. Perez made it very clear what Diana's various gifts were.
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Post by Phantom Stargrave on Jun 7, 2011 18:02:04 GMT -5
I am not sure why these facts make you so uncomfortable. Hermes states very specifically that he gifts her with his speed. Furthermore, it states that she has his speed at the beginning of every issue in her third volume. It is not hyperbole. Perez made it very clear what Diana's various gifts were. Because they're not facts. They're just statements for which we have only their word to go on, and I've seen plenty of examples where such statements don't coincide with reality. Again, any evidence derived from Hermes' feats can only be circumstantial.
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Beatboks
Team Buster Ledger
Posts: 2,206
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Post by Beatboks on Jun 7, 2011 18:44:35 GMT -5
AHH guy's if I'm not mistaken. Aren't these scans from the era when wally was depowered (the five or so years following COIE) and was just a sonic level speedster, who had to consume massive amounts of food fro the calories he burned running. So really all these scans are quite out of context. Looking at them we could be led to believe that Hermes is faster than a speed force user when the scans don't show that at all (no mention of the speed force back then). IIRC back then Wally's limit was mach 5ish, and after for example running a donor organ across country that couldn't be flown he was totally spent and had to get a flight home (not to mention eat for a week)
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Post by Erik-El on Jun 7, 2011 18:51:29 GMT -5
I am not sure why these facts make you so uncomfortable. Hermes states very specifically that he gifts her with his speed. Furthermore, it states that she has his speed at the beginning of every issue in her third volume. It is not hyperbole. Perez made it very clear what Diana's various gifts were. Because they're not facts. They're just statements for which we have only their word to go on, and I've seen plenty of examples where such statements don't coincide with reality. Again, any evidence derived from Hermes' feats can only be circumstantial. Not true. If Hermes tells Diana that she has his speed and it is regularly stated as such, then she has it unless YOU can provide proof that she does not.
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Beatboks
Team Buster Ledger
Posts: 2,206
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Post by Beatboks on Jun 7, 2011 18:54:36 GMT -5
As I said, questionable. He starts faltering at mach 500, but it isn't until near light speed that Jay takes his velocity. There's no way Jay was traveling at ~C and Adam at Mach 500 and for them to still be side by side with each other. Thanks for the scans. Saved me the trouble of going through my files. Based on this we have 2 choices. Either Put BA (and likely Capt Marvel, Superman and Wonder Woman) in at Rank 17 (mach 500) or Put them in at rank 20 (mach 67500) as BA is keeping pace with Jay Garrick until much closer to light speed. Its interupretation of the feat. I am inclined to go with the higher rank for now as it seems reasonable that BA would need to keep pace with Jay for longer. I wasn't fully clear in that post. I meant it validates phantom on either of his figures. I'd say a fare measure is somewhere between. The issue clearly showed BA could get to "near" light speed, but it clearly took everything he had in the tank.
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Beatboks
Team Buster Ledger
Posts: 2,206
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Post by Beatboks on Jun 7, 2011 18:59:16 GMT -5
Actually now that you mention it, I only assumed we were discussing "running" speed because SM brought up the speed steel from BA by Jay (which I knew to be out of a foot race). I flight the Marvels and BA would all be 26 with Superman 27 (I'd guess). Running 22 (where they are ) is about right IMHO. Superman at rank 27 for flight ? Have we got a feat to support this ? To be honest creator I haven't read a Superman story since the late 80's, so the feats I'm thinking of my no longer be canon. What I'm considering is Clark's cross universe/galaxy flights. The best of which is when he flies to the "edge" of the universe after IIRC Supergirl's soul and is stopped by the Spectre before he meets the presence or some such (like I said it's been a while)
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