|
|
Post by Crom-Cruach on Dec 15, 2010 23:55:56 GMT -5
If you want info on them there is a book out and discovery channel had a show on insect feats. Comparing animals and such.
|
|
|
|
Post by Erik-El on Dec 16, 2010 11:42:05 GMT -5
If you want info on them there is a book out and discovery channel had a show on insect feats. Comparing animals and such. So does that mean you cannot or will not provide the reference material that you are getting this information from? I am asking because if you are unable or unwilling to back up your claims, I suggest that they be tossed from the debate. |
|
|
|
Post by Crom-Cruach on Dec 16, 2010 13:18:15 GMT -5
So does that mean you cannot or will not provide the reference material that you are getting this information from? No, you can look it up on youtube. Just because I can't remember the show's title doesn't mean I wrong. Plus books on megafauna are available easily. And everything I said about the blue ringed octopus is easily found on the net and numerous sites. Saying I have nothing to back it up when the information is easily available everywhere is wrong. |
|
|
|
Post by Erik-El on Dec 16, 2010 13:22:48 GMT -5
So does that mean you cannot or will not provide the reference material that you are getting this information from? No, you can look it up on youtube. Plus books on megafauna are available. And everything I said about the blue ringed octopus is easily found on the net. I am just interested in the prehistoric dragonfly. The octopus seemed to be not allowed since Beast Boy is only going for a knockout, not to kill. |
|
|
|
Post by Crom-Cruach on Dec 16, 2010 13:29:15 GMT -5
Youtube, then. Discovery has made a couple of shows that talked about bugs both prehistoric and modern and their feats.
Prehistoric park was one of them. There's also many books. Look up Meganeura and Meganeuropsis americana both giant flying insects.
And to get back on topic. Beast Boy can also change into mythological beasts. That includes hydras, dragons, sea snakes and whatever. Xraven is pretty much screwed.
|
|
|
|
Post by Erik-El on Dec 16, 2010 13:30:34 GMT -5
Saying I have nothing to back it up when the information is easily available everywhere is wrong. I never said you do not have it. I asked for it and said that if you were unwilling or unable to back it up, it should be disregarded. |
|
|
|
Post by Crom-Cruach on Dec 16, 2010 13:33:07 GMT -5
Except that is not true since the information is easily accessible, like with youtube, books etc.
|
|
|
|
Post by Erik-El on Dec 16, 2010 13:33:34 GMT -5
Youtube, then. Discovery has made a couple of shows that talked about bugs both prehistoric and modern and their feats. Prehistoric park was one of them. There's also many books. Look up Meganeura and Meganeuropsis americana both giant flying insects. And to get back on topic. Beast Boy can also change into mythological beasts. That includes hydras, dragons, sea snakes and whatever. Xraven is pretty much screwed. Does he not have to actually change into the exact physical animal when doing so though? What I mean is he cannot change into a 20 ft tall panda. It has to be the exact size and stats of said animal. None of those listed animals come in pocket sizes that I know of. In fact, the ones you listed are all a great deal larger than the size limitation of a T-Rex. |
|
|
|
Post by Erik-El on Dec 16, 2010 13:34:16 GMT -5
Except that is not true since the information is easily accessible, like with youtube, books etc. What is not true? That you are unwilling to provide it? So far, it is very true. |
|
|
|
Post by Crom-Cruach on Dec 16, 2010 13:40:35 GMT -5
[quote author=erik board=battles thread=796 post=40371 In fact, the ones you listed are all a great deal larger than the size limitation of a T-Rex. [/quote] Eh no look at old representations of the hydra and dragon myths, many in the original stories were actually smaller then a T-Rex. This is just not true look at this picture of the hydra on wall of greek buildin versus Hercules, it's not bigger then a T-Rex: www.vroma.org/images/bonvallet_images/bonvall19b.jpgOr St-George versus the dragon in the painting from an old church, also smaller then a T-Rex: www.st-george-church.org/ImageFiles/Icons/St_George/st_george_2.jpgAnd I haven't backed my claims, the information is everywhere. I just haven't bothered to put up scans here. Just like nobody else has done who's argued against me. |
|
|
|
Post by Erik-El on Dec 16, 2010 13:43:32 GMT -5
[quote author=erik board=battles thread=796 post=40371 In fact, the ones you listed are all a great deal larger than the size limitation of a T-Rex. Eh no look at old representations of the hydra and dragon myths, many in the original stories were actually smaller then a T-Rex. This is just not true look at this picture of the hydra on wall of greek buildin versus Hercules, it's not bigger then a T-Rex: www.vroma.org/images/bonvallet_images/bonvall19b.jpgOr St-George versus the dragon in the painting from an old church, also smaller then a T-Rex: www.st-george-church.org/ImageFiles/Icons/St_George/st_george_2.jpgAnd I haven't backed my claims, the information is everywhere. I just haven't bothered to put up scans here. Just like nobody else has done who's argued against me. [/quote] It does not matter how they are depicted in actual paintings? Most of those ancient works were not to scale and I am sure you would know how they are described in actual mythology. Not that that would matter anyway. All that matters is how they are shown in DC's mythology. Has a hydra ever been shown as anything other than ridiculously large in comics ever? |
|
|
|
Post by Crom-Cruach on Dec 16, 2010 14:02:48 GMT -5
It does not matter how they are depicted in actual paintings? Most of those ancient works were not to scale and I am sure you would know The original mythic Hydra, that is the second labour of Hercules. The Learnean Hydra was smaller then a T.Rex. The reason was so fierce was because of it's poison, it did not die and grew more and more heads. So yes I am correct. Theogony where Hercules's works are n narrated has a lenghtly description of the battle with the Hydra. Same thing with the myth of St-George. The original myth states it's neck was small enough that woman'S girdle could be wrapped around it. In fact it allow the beast to be subdued temporarily. Agin I am correct that it was smaller then a T-Rex Not that that would matter anyway. All that matters is how they are shown in DC's mythology. No true because DC doesn't have a standard "Hydras are this big". He could take a smaller hydra form. And DC assumes mythology is real. Hence Hercules did slay the Hydra. Has a hydra ever been shown as anything other than ridiculously large in comics ever? Sure, depending on the comic. One comic has hydras bigger then a city another barely bigger then an Alosaurus. Then you have Percy Jackson where the Hydra can change it's form and size. Really this is just silly, Hydras don't have a pre-set size in comics. |
|
|
|
Post by Erik-El on Dec 16, 2010 14:09:42 GMT -5
The original mythic Hydra, that is the second labour of Hercules. The Learnean Hydra was smaller then a T.Rex. The reason was so fierce was because of it's poison, it did not die and grew more and more heads. So yes I am correct. Theogony where Hercules's works are n narrated has a lenghtly description of the battle with the Hydra. Same thing with the myth of St-George. The original myth states it's neck was small enough that woman'S girdle could be wrapped around it. In fact it allow the beast to be subdued temporarily. Agin I am correct that it was smaller then a T-Rex No true because DC doesn't have a standard "Hydras are this big". He could take a smaller hydra form. And DC assumes mythology is real. Hence Hercules did slay the Hydra. Sure, depending on the comic. One comic has hydras bigger then a city another barely bigger then an Alosaurus. Then you have Percy Jackson where the Hydra can change it's form and size. Really this is just silly, Hydras don't have a pre-set size in comics. Having a small neck does not describe its overall size. Since you are the resident expert on mythology, tell me how a hydra is depicted in size please. So what if they do not have a standard. We could really only use what has been shown because for all we know, that is all there is in DC. Hercules did slay the hydra but again, how big was it shown to be in the comics? |
|
|
|
Post by Crom-Cruach on Dec 16, 2010 14:16:35 GMT -5
Having a small neck does not describe its overall size. Since you are the resident expert on mythology, tell me how a hydra is depicted in size please. Theogony states the Hydra was small enough that when he understood his weakness. He cut off all it's heads at once. Then held it down so his nephew Iolaus could cautorize the stumps with a firebrand (stick on fire). Ergo it couldn't have been that big other wise that would have been impossible as the heads regrew instantly and he had to cauterize the whole thing at once to prevent it from regrowing. He also kept one of the heads for later and used it to make poisoned arrows. Hydra wasn't that big. as for the Hydra in DC, never had one appear in any WW comic I remember, Hercules did appear however. So for now we assume it's like the mythology |
|
|
|
Post by Crom-Cruach on Dec 16, 2010 14:19:03 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by Admin on Dec 16, 2010 14:32:46 GMT -5
If you want scans supporting what I've said about Kraven and Xraven, I'll take the time to do so. but what i've said so far regarding it is pretty much accepted fact by people who know the characters. What you're discussing isn't really comic related at all, which is why evidence is required. It's not really expected for comic fans to know how fast a phrehistoric dragon fly can move, lol.
|
|
|
|
Post by Power NeXus on Dec 16, 2010 14:35:46 GMT -5
We also have to take into consideration whether or not Beast Boy would try turning into a mythological beast. I haven't read many comics with him in them, but he seems to stick with more standard animal forms the vast majority of the time.
|
|
|
|
Post by Admin on Dec 16, 2010 14:38:49 GMT -5
We also have to take into consideration whether or not Beast Boy would try turning into a mythological beast. I haven't read many comics with him in them, but he seems to stick with more standard animal forms the vast majority of the time. I know he's been an alien lifeform a few times and I've seen him become a dinosaur as well, but I agree. The majority of the time (based on my reading so far) appears to be present-day earth based animals (whale, polar bear, octopus, bird, so on and so on). |
|
|
|
Post by Crom-Cruach on Dec 16, 2010 14:41:46 GMT -5
If you want scans supporting what I've said about Kraven and Xraven, I'll take the time to do so. but what i've said so far regarding it is pretty much accepted fact by people who know the characters. I don't need them, I believe you and am familiar enough with the topic and know you as a person who doesn't talk out of his hat. I know what you said is true. What you're discussing isn't really comic related at all, which is why evidence is required. It's not really expected for comic fans to know how fast a phrehistoric dragon fly can move, lol. As smart people who read books and actually can understand science. Thus find the information easily and who know me, I'd expect people to trust me and give me some benefit of the doubt. You all know I will readily admit my ignorance on something factual if I am ignorant of the topic. |
|
|
|
Post by Erik-El on Dec 16, 2010 14:45:26 GMT -5
@crom:
No one is questioning your intelligence. I want to further my own knowledge and to know without a shadow of a doubt that nothing was misinterpreted or taken out of context. Even the most brilliant of men have made mistakes.
|
|
