Decoy Elite
The Unstoppable Ledgernaut
I've seen things you wouldn't believe
Posts: 4,854
|
Post by Decoy Elite on Jan 14, 2011 6:13:44 GMT -5
Mark was a bounty hunter with no powers who hunted super powered criminals. He usually boned up on who he was after and planned accordingly. In a couple of issues he actually wore a suit of armor like Rocket Red/ Ironman because he believed he required it against the quarry he was chasing www.comicvine.com/manhunter-/37-30970/Mark would do what ever he thought he needed to take down his prey. Remember he's a former super villain who went up against the Satellite era JLA (as both Privateer and Star-tsar Wait...K4tz said that the characters only have basic knowledge of each other which means that Mark should only know that Dr.McNinja is a ninja(possibly he'd know he's a peak human ninja) He doesn't get prep to bone up on McNinja here. |
|
Beatboks
Team Buster Ledger
Posts: 2,206
|
Post by Beatboks on Jan 14, 2011 6:46:27 GMT -5
I beg to differ below are K4tz own words. You can hardly call McNinja's speed and strength mere “skill”.
He's therefore going to know his physical capabilities but not his degree of skill (which he could guess being a ninja and all) or where he might draw the line, haw far he's capable of going. It's the powers and "peak(??) that he's going to prepare for not the combat skill. The same way he's taken extra precaution against Captain Cold, Count Vertigo, Kobra, Catman and the Yakuza. While less well armed against eh likes of the Penguin, and even Dumas (his shape shifting and healing abilities were not known to anyone, even Shaw's contacts).
|
|
Decoy Elite
The Unstoppable Ledgernaut
I've seen things you wouldn't believe
Posts: 4,854
|
Post by Decoy Elite on Jan 14, 2011 6:52:44 GMT -5
But that means McNinja knows about he magnet ray, which means he could try to dodge it right? Or is it undodgeable?
|
|
Beatboks
Team Buster Ledger
Posts: 2,206
|
Post by Beatboks on Jan 14, 2011 7:23:56 GMT -5
But that means McNinja knows about he magnet ray, which means he could try to dodge it right? Or is it undodgeable? That's right he knows. What he doesn't know is Shaw's morals, how he might, how far he might go, what he's capable off "emotionally, same as Shaw for McNinja. I would presume it's not unavoidable, that's why he's planning a sneak attack. Hit him with it before he know's it's happened. Monitor him from afar (again using the omni mic so that if he believes he's been made due to change of heart rate back of and try from another angle, another place. My whole strategy is ambush (a bushwacking ambush at that). Since the magnetic puls is just a magnetic wave it's not something you can see or hear. You's have to see Shaw aiming the Baton and firing. My plan is to be sneaky enough not to let that happen. |
|
Decoy Elite
The Unstoppable Ledgernaut
I've seen things you wouldn't believe
Posts: 4,854
|
Post by Decoy Elite on Jan 14, 2011 7:35:26 GMT -5
But that means McNinja knows about he magnet ray, which means he could try to dodge it right? Or is it undodgeable? That's right he knows. What he doesn't know is Shaw's morals, how he might, how far he might go, what he's capable off "emotionally, same as Shaw for McNinja. I would presume it's not unavoidable, that's why he's planning a sneak attack. Hit him with it before he know's it's happened. Monitor him from afar (again using the omni mic so that if he believes he's been made due to change of heart rate back of and try from another angle, another place. My whole strategy is ambush (a bushwacking ambush at that). Since the magnetic puls is just a magnetic wave it's not something you can see or hear. You's have to see Shaw aiming the Baton and firing. My plan is to be sneaky enough not to let that happen. Well given, McNinja would also know about the helmet that with the thermal vision and such, I'd assume he'd expect a sneak attack. Not sure what he'd do about it though....(Goes off to find scans) |
|
Beatboks
Team Buster Ledger
Posts: 2,206
|
Post by Beatboks on Jan 14, 2011 7:41:42 GMT -5
at least it's more of a battle this way, than if I still had my restrictions.
Can't wait to see McNinja's counter. See you 2morrow.
|
|
Decoy Elite
The Unstoppable Ledgernaut
I've seen things you wouldn't believe
Posts: 4,854
|
Post by Decoy Elite on Jan 14, 2011 7:47:50 GMT -5
|
|
Beatboks
Team Buster Ledger
Posts: 2,206
|
Post by Beatboks on Jan 15, 2011 6:42:07 GMT -5
Couple of questions. 1. In those scans it's a straight on fight (granted stealth fight) in close quarters. How is that going to help against an adversary who's planning a stealth distance strike. With a weapon who's attack won't be seen or heard and by someone who can monitor him from afar in a few ways. 2. expecting a sneak attack how's he going to prevent it, what's he going to do to turn the surprise his way. Also as a counter if McNinja does somehow manage to close the distance between himself and shaw, there are ways Shaw can still escape his reach despite his speed. For one thing his smoke bombs are going to be useless (shaw's infra red). For another if McNinja gets close enough to actually strike (meaning Shaw's plans had a whole, and he didn't use the Baton on him) he still has a fully charged baton that he can simply reverse the polarity of. Result McNinja's sword (his main weapon that he always carries) can be repelled by Shaw effectively using it as a means of keeping McNinja at a distance. If McNinja drops the sword to go hand to hand Shaw can use McNinja's own blade against him. s1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff368/beatboks01/?action=view¤t=Manhunterrepelsblades16.jpg |
|
Decoy Elite
The Unstoppable Ledgernaut
I've seen things you wouldn't believe
Posts: 4,854
|
Post by Decoy Elite on Jan 15, 2011 8:08:28 GMT -5
1. The cave was rather large(it has entire house in it a bit further forward into it) and the scans show that he can spot his mother(who is better at sneaking then he is) in the dark. This means he should be able to find Mark. 2. True, but then again McNinja's does have the means to dodge almost any sneak attack as long as he can spot Mark. Even Mark's magnetic baton might be dodge able. If they get close up McNinja can just take the baton right out of Mark's hands. drmcninja.com/comics/2008-09-1213p14.jpg |
|
Beatboks
Team Buster Ledger
Posts: 2,206
|
Post by Beatboks on Jan 16, 2011 5:11:05 GMT -5
|
|
Beatboks
Team Buster Ledger
Posts: 2,206
|
Post by Beatboks on Jan 16, 2011 18:52:57 GMT -5
personally, if it's cool with Decoy/Sarda I'm cool for voting to commence.
|
|
Decoy Elite
The Unstoppable Ledgernaut
I've seen things you wouldn't believe
Posts: 4,854
|
Post by Decoy Elite on Jan 16, 2011 19:06:21 GMT -5
personally, if it's cool with Decoy/Sarda I'm cool for voting to commence. I'm cool with that. Good debate. |
|
Decoy Elite
The Unstoppable Ledgernaut
I've seen things you wouldn't believe
Posts: 4,854
|
Post by Decoy Elite on Jan 16, 2011 19:09:59 GMT -5
Bluh, bluh, fine.
|
|
|
|
Post by Power NeXus on Jan 16, 2011 22:24:57 GMT -5
I began reading this debate with absolutely no knowledge whatsoever on either combatant. Because of that, my vote will not be based at all on which character I think would win. It will be based entirely on which debater I believe presented a better argument.
And with that, I will have to give my vote to Beatboks.
|
|
|
|
Post by DedmanWalkin on Jan 16, 2011 22:48:40 GMT -5
Much like NeXus, I had very little knowledge on either combatant beyond the small amount I had actually read on both. I really enjoyed learning more about both. That all being said, I will have to throw my vote to Beatboks. Though I should say that defending a web comic character would be difficult and Decoy acquitted himself very well.
Now go vote in me and Power NeXus' topic!!!!!
|
|
|
|
Post by Power NeXus on Jan 16, 2011 23:13:16 GMT -5
co-signed
|
|
|
|
Post by ckal on Jan 16, 2011 23:19:16 GMT -5
I began reading this debate with absolutely no knowledge whatsoever on either combatant. Because of that, my vote will not be based at all on which character I think would win. It will be based entirely on which debater I believe presented a better argument.And with that, I will have to give my vote to Beatboks.Isn't that how you are supposed to vote on these threads? If you don't take into account these two debaters' arguments presented, what's the point of this? |
|
|
|
Post by Power NeXus on Jan 17, 2011 0:46:12 GMT -5
I began reading this debate with absolutely no knowledge whatsoever on either combatant. Because of that, my vote will not be based at all on which character I think would win. It will be based entirely on which debater I believe presented a better argument.And with that, I will have to give my vote to Beatboks.Isn't that how you are supposed to vote on these threads? If you don't take into account these two debaters' arguments presented, what's the point of this? Usually, in tournament threads where people pick their characters beforehand, my vote is based on 1) who showed the most raw debating skill and style and 2) who had the better team/ character/ ect in the first place. (ex: "Hmm. Not sure who to vote for. Dude 1 picked a much better team, IMO, but Dude 2 did a better job of defending his team. Hmm.) This time, I really didn't know who had chosen the better character, so my vote depended entirely on debate prowess. |
|
Beatboks
Team Buster Ledger
Posts: 2,206
|
Post by Beatboks on Jan 17, 2011 6:12:41 GMT -5
Isn't that how you are supposed to vote on these threads? If you don't take into account these two debaters' arguments presented, what's the point of this? Usually, in tournament threads where people pick their characters beforehand, my vote is based on 1) who showed the most raw debating skill and style and 2) who had the better team/ character/ ect in the first place. (ex: "Hmm. Not sure who to vote for. Dude 1 picked a much better team, IMO, but Dude 2 did a better job of defending his team. Hmm.) This time, I really didn't know who had chosen the better character, so my vote depended entirely on debate prowess. I tend to go solely with the debate. If you ask me it takes a lot more talent and imagination to produce a scenario where an inferior character beats a better one, that others can buy. I have to admit in a straight up fight Shaw wouldn't stand a chance against McNinja. He's more skilled faster, stronger, more durable, with better reflexes. Fortunately for me , my guy wasn't a straight up fighter. He's a sneaky, side winding, bush wacking, back stabbing SOB. Whatever it takes to collect his bounty. The only straight up fights he ever had were against Dumas and frankly that was because until the end (after Dumas had killed some of his family) he was always the one hunting Mark not the other way around. |
|
|
|
Post by ckal on Jan 17, 2011 15:23:51 GMT -5
@lexus- I always thought these were battles solely between debaters. Who presented better arguments, facts, strategies, knowledge, etc. The characters they choose were just the substance to the battle between debaters in a head to head match like this, I've always thought.
Obviously some of these fights can be lopsided. That makes it a little more difficult for the person with the lesser combatant to win the debate because it is harder to prove his combatant has a chance to win. But, if they can do that or come close to convincing me that a character who shouldn't win in that particular fight has a chance to win, then that debater has won in my mind.
For example: a debater who picks Deathstroke who is up against a debater who has Mockingbird has a huge advantage. But they must do more than simply say Deathstroke is better or has better physical stats. They must still explain exactly why DS would win, and should crush the other debater with facts and feats and scans (because it is much easier for them). If the Mockingbird debater can poke holes in the DS argument and purely out-debate the DS debater, the MB debater in my mind has won (even though we know DS would beat MB).
If the combatants are pretty equal to begin with, then the debaters are a little less handicapped, and whoever provides the best argument that their guy can win, gets my vote.
We aren't supposed to take into account our knowledge of each character regardless how much we may know. Pretend like we don't know either character. We should only make a decision based on the information provided for us in this head to head debate. IMO, at least.
Very long winded, but basically, I just think it is a battle between debaters: who is better, at least on this day.
|
|
