Silver
The Unstoppable Ledgernaut
The Fourth Precept
Posts: 4,654
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Post by Silver on Jan 23, 2011 8:13:20 GMT -5
He isn't as fast as a speedster, but he doesn't need to be. The Cobra's speed was an aspect Danny commented that surprised him, but he did not demonstrate difficulty in being able to keep up with him, or land a kick, and a punch, before remembering the words of Blue Eyed Servant Girl and basically giving up. He lost anyway. Even if he refused to yield further, Cobra would have simply pounded on him until he lost consciousness (which he, in a way, seemed to do). So while Danny may not have been as powerful by that point as he was later on, I disagree with him simply giving up.
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Post by Morpheus on Jan 23, 2011 8:16:30 GMT -5
He isn't as fast as a speedster, but he doesn't need to be. The Cobra's speed was an aspect Danny commented that surprised him, but he did not demonstrate difficulty in being able to keep up with him, or land a kick, and a punch, before remembering the words of Blue Eyed Servant Girl and basically giving up. He lost anyway. Even if he refused to yield further, Cobra would have simply pounded on him until he lost consciousness (which he, in a way, seemed to do). So while Danny may not have been as powerful by that point as he was later on, I disagree with him simply giving up. I've read the Seven Capital Cities of Heaven, thank you. The reason he repeats it, is so that he may convince himself he didn't throw the match. Hence the continuous "I didn't, I didn't, I didn't".
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Silver
The Unstoppable Ledgernaut
The Fourth Precept
Posts: 4,654
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Post by Silver on Jan 23, 2011 8:28:12 GMT -5
He lost anyway. Even if he refused to yield further, Cobra would have simply pounded on him until he lost consciousness (which he, in a way, seemed to do). So while Danny may not have been as powerful by that point as he was later on, I disagree with him simply giving up. I've read the Seven Capital Cities of Heaven, thank you. The reason he repeats it, is so that he may convince himself he didn't throw the match. Hence the continuous "I didn't, I didn't, I didn't".I never questioned your reading it, but he never seemed to show any signs of restraint during his fight with Cobra, especially since he went on the offensive and ultimately failed. While he may have afterward, he seemed clearly beaten. As for my scan, I had a doubt about the context of it. I remembered him repeating that to himself but nothing during his conversation with the servant girl afterward regarding whether or not he actually did throw the fight or not. So I guess I misrepresented it. But, eh. I tried.
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Post by Morpheus on Jan 23, 2011 8:41:31 GMT -5
@ Silver - He did go on the offensive a couple of times, but throughout the fight he also tried to keep his distance and take the fight away from people that could potentially be hurt, before Cobra grabbed him back.
Whether he threw the fight or not has been a matter of discussion and interpretation, but I do believe that when he found himself at a tight spot, he didn't push himself harder, or at least as hard as he could. Cobra repeatedly tells him to yield, and at some point he replies "No..?" which isn't so much a defiant exclamation, but rather a question. Blue Eyed Servant Girl instilled doubt in his mind as to what he should do, and in the end, whether he would have won or lost without her words before hand is hard to tell.
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Silver
The Unstoppable Ledgernaut
The Fourth Precept
Posts: 4,654
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Post by Silver on Jan 23, 2011 8:55:39 GMT -5
@morpheus: The way I looked at his his repeating of "I didn't throw the fight" was that, in his yielding, he had given up (in one way or another). I was unaware that it was a topic of debate whether or not Rand actually did throw the fight, but I was under the impression he never actually did. He just had not yet learned all of the techniques he knew later in the series. So his fight with Cobra may or may not be an indicator of how a fight between Danny and Cobra would go currently. @ Silver - He did go on the offensive a couple of times, but throughout the fight he also tried to keep his distance and take the fight away from people that could potentially be hurt, before Cobra grabbed him back. Ah, I remember that. I have been working off memory this entire discussion, and I completely forgot about his concern over the bystanders in the area. So actually, I concede purely because of that.
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Post by Morpheus on Jan 23, 2011 9:05:05 GMT -5
@ Silver - No doubt, I'm not saying Danny would have dominated the Cobra or anything of the kind (earlier on he says he has "no clue how to beat him"), just that even after the fight has concluded and he is all by himself he repeats "I didn't throw the fight", and indication that there is, perhaps, an uncertainty even in himself on if he was consciously, or subconsciously influenced by the warning. There would be no reason to think that phrase, otherwise, since Danny should by all accounts be aware of what he did, or did not do.
No problem, happens to everyone.
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Silver
The Unstoppable Ledgernaut
The Fourth Precept
Posts: 4,654
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Post by Silver on Jan 23, 2011 9:18:35 GMT -5
@ Silver - No doubt, I'm not saying Danny would have dominated the Cobra or anything of the kind (earlier on he says he has "no clue how to beat him"), Well, sure. I understand. I also never meant to make it out that that was what you meant. just that even after the fight has concluded and he is all by himself he repeats "I didn't throw the fight", and indication that there is, perhaps, an uncertainty even in himself on if he was consciously, or subconsciously influenced by the warning. There would be no reason to think that phrase, otherwise, since Danny should by all accounts be aware of what he did, or did not do. I guess I understand why this is an issue of debate then. You looked at it as that he possibly had subconscious doubts as a result of the blue-eyed servant girl; whereas, I interpreted it as Danny trying to convince himself that his yielding was not him throwing the fight. I see your point. No problem, happens to everyone.
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Post by Morpheus on Jan 23, 2011 9:30:51 GMT -5
Good debate, man.
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Silver
The Unstoppable Ledgernaut
The Fourth Precept
Posts: 4,654
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Post by Silver on Jan 23, 2011 9:50:26 GMT -5
@morpheus: You too, but be warned. One of these days, you will concede to me in a debate, and then I will laugh and use a "I PWNED Morpheus in a debate" avatar for weeks.
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Post by Morpheus on Jan 23, 2011 9:51:09 GMT -5
@morpheus: You too, but be warned. One of these days, you will concede to me in a debate, and then I will laugh and use a "I PWNED Morpheus in a debate" avatar for weeks. I actually did that to Phantom, long ago.
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Silver
The Unstoppable Ledgernaut
The Fourth Precept
Posts: 4,654
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Post by Silver on Jan 23, 2011 9:56:57 GMT -5
@morpheus: You too, but be warned. One of these days, you will concede to me in a debate, and then I will laugh and use a "I PWNED Morpheus in a debate" avatar for weeks. I actually did that to Phantom, long ago.LOL.
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Post by Morpheus on Jan 23, 2011 9:59:39 GMT -5
I actually did that to Phantom, long ago. LOL. It was actually a "I beat AtPhantom, Chuck Norris is next" motivational. No idea if I still have it somewhere.
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Silver
The Unstoppable Ledgernaut
The Fourth Precept
Posts: 4,654
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Post by Silver on Jan 23, 2011 10:03:00 GMT -5
It was actually a "I beat Sonatine, Chuck Norris is next" motivational. No idea if I still have it somewhere. "Chuck Norris is next." Nice. The only thing that could possibly be more of a win is if it was "Batman is next." LOL. Why "Sonatine"?
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Post by Morpheus on Jan 23, 2011 10:05:29 GMT -5
@ Silver - Phantom's full username automatically changes to "Sonatine" here. One of my vices. Sonatine was a classic Darkness villain with the ability to persuade anyone of anything he said. His devious nature reminded me of Phantom, so I jokingly call him Sonatine at times.
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Silver
The Unstoppable Ledgernaut
The Fourth Precept
Posts: 4,654
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Post by Silver on Jan 23, 2011 10:13:15 GMT -5
@morpheus: Interesting. Phantom's status on the Vine has pertained to his supposedly being Sonatine, but I thought Sonatine was an alt or something like that. I never knew exactly what that meant or where it came from.
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Post by Morpheus on Jan 23, 2011 10:14:24 GMT -5
@morpheus: Interesting. Phantom's status on the Vine has pertained to his supposedly being Sonatine, but I thought Sonatine was an alt or something like that. I never knew exactly what that meant or where it came from. Haha, yes, that's how it started.
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Post by kuwabara on Feb 15, 2011 2:45:22 GMT -5
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