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Post by Admin on Mar 15, 2011 0:12:57 GMT -5
Not irrelevant at all. I've provided examples, and recent ones at that, proving otherwise to this point. Sure, he kills plenty of foes, but so has Cap, Cyclops, and quite a few other respectable leaders because they have deemed it best. You know the legal system is hardly the best way to counter-act these threats, so don't go saying how that's the high and mighty system that we need to respect and follow when it comes to the 616 universe And by openly flaunting authority you mean acting like every other anti-hero out there who is okay with killing when deemed necessary? Cap's actions during Civil War flaunted authority because he knew what he was doing was the right thing. The same applies to Punisher when it comes to stopping corrupt gangs/crime that the police can't touch.
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Painkiller
Team Buster Ledger
?I?m sorry, did I ruin your concentration??
Posts: 2,407
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Post by Painkiller on Mar 15, 2011 6:15:12 GMT -5
He isn't insane, just vengeful.
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spidey_17
The Unstoppable Ledgernaut
With Great Power Comes Great.... suffering?
Posts: 4,961
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Post by spidey_17 on Mar 15, 2011 9:56:57 GMT -5
Frank Castle is insane. Anyone who actually kills has a bit of insanity. He is just mostly pissed and his action comes from his anger, but that does not really mean he is not a bit of insane. =]
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Post by Admin on Mar 15, 2011 10:52:27 GMT -5
So, in a universe where fighting for your life on a weekly basis, anyone who isn't afraid to kill is a little insane? I don't follow. Is Captain America or Cyclops a bit insane ? They've killed.
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Post by Admin on Mar 15, 2011 10:53:20 GMT -5
And Crom, we're not talking about ult universes (MAX).
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spidey_17
The Unstoppable Ledgernaut
With Great Power Comes Great.... suffering?
Posts: 4,961
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Post by spidey_17 on Mar 15, 2011 11:03:14 GMT -5
The only instance that i know cap that killed was during war, which obviously was necessary to happen. I'm not sure about cyke though. I would like to hear some examples and under what conditions happened. As for Castle, my point is that, the guy had his family killed. I can't imagine anyone not being mentally affected by such event. Added to all these, he decided, after that, to kill criminals. That means that he do not really just kill because he is in danger, to defend himself. I know, this is a reason that he does that, but the main one is because he actually wants to kill. It's his way of dealing with criminals. His way/method is death. Killing on purpose and doing it because you actually want to do it, never seemed to sane to me. Don't tell me that it sounds sane to you. Also in that universe that you mentioned, where you are fighting for your life, there are plenty of people that are fighting for their lives, but not everyone kills. =]
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Post by Admin on Mar 15, 2011 11:12:48 GMT -5
My dispute isn't that having your family would have a huge impact on you, anyone that's HUMAN would be emotionally ripped apart. My dispute is he's not as mentally unstable as Crom implies.
Other heroes don't kill? Wow, I had no idea.
Those other people, for the most part, also aren't REGULAR HUMANS lol. Moon Knight has advanced tech and armor, Daredevil's radar makes him neigh untouchable, Spider-Man has a massive physical advantage, so on and so on. Plus, like I've already disputed, Frank's action takes down criminals that the law (or those other heroes) can't put away.
And for the last time, Frank doesn't always kill, nor does he always "want to." There are a least a dozen examples where he's let enemies live. Also, he kills them because, like I've already said, it deals with criminals that the law can't touch, and people like Spider-Man/DD are clearly too busy for.
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spidey_17
The Unstoppable Ledgernaut
With Great Power Comes Great.... suffering?
Posts: 4,961
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Post by spidey_17 on Mar 15, 2011 11:21:05 GMT -5
I never implied that he is as insane as Crom has implied. Sorry for not making clear. But my point is that he actually has a bit of insanity.
Frank not always want to kill or not killing at all, just proves the point that he is not that insane, whic h i agree with you in that. But the fact that there are occasions that he is actually doing it on purpose, just proves my point that he is a bit of insane. =]
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Post by Admin on Mar 15, 2011 11:23:03 GMT -5
Well, I think everyone can agree that the events he's gone through (numerous combat operations, loss of family) would have a major impact on anyone's mind set.
I disagree though that killing makes one a little insane.
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spidey_17
The Unstoppable Ledgernaut
With Great Power Comes Great.... suffering?
Posts: 4,961
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Post by spidey_17 on Mar 15, 2011 11:27:22 GMT -5
Killing on purpose, IMO, does not really seem such a sane action. =]
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Post by Admin on Mar 15, 2011 11:30:12 GMT -5
Letting someone who you know will get away with murdering dozens of innocents in the future and furthering a criminal empire, which in turn leads to more murders and illegal activites is? It's sort of like in Welcome Back Frank, when Frank kills a crime boss in front of Daredevil because he KNOWS the justice system won't do anything to stop him. Like I've said, these people Frank goes after tend to be virtually untouchable by the law. He's proven to have far more tolerance for lesser threats or people he believes can change their ways.
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Post by Erik-El on Mar 15, 2011 12:15:35 GMT -5
I did not know there was an insane measuring scale. I thought you were either insane, or you were not.
Frank is deeply disturbed, but not legally insane. Legally insane people cannot distinguish from right and wrong. Frank knows those lines. He is aware of them. He is also in control of his own behavior, another thing a legally insane person is unable to do.
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Post by Admin on Mar 15, 2011 13:15:56 GMT -5
Erik should know. After all, only legally insane people move to AZ
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Post by Erik-El on Mar 15, 2011 13:20:36 GMT -5
Erik should know. After all, only legally insane people move to AZ You have wounded me sir! You know I prefer the beach.
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Post by Admin on Mar 15, 2011 13:39:56 GMT -5
LOL.
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Post by Lunacyde Prime on Mar 15, 2011 14:03:33 GMT -5
Personally I think that he is not "mentally unstable" because he has not displayed what I would consider erratic or mentally unstable behavior. I believe he is obsessive, and driven to the point of being mentally unhealthy, but to me unstable points to someone not being in control of their faculties or actions. Frank seems to be in control of himself in my humble opinion, he just does what he does because no one else will do what needs to be done to keep these criminals from creating new victims.. He may not be right in the head, he may have some kind of mental problem but he is not insane or mentally unstable. The two are not the same. For example OCD is a mental problem, but it doesn't make one insane.
Is he a serial killer? Yes, by definition i believe he is. A serial killer is a person who carries out a series of murders according to dictionary.com and had no definition at merriam-webster.com. By this definition he, as well as many others are in fact serial killers.
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Post by Admin on Mar 15, 2011 14:05:29 GMT -5
Nice post, Luna. I think everyone can agree he's by all means a serial killer, but just like you, I disagree regarding his mental health.
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Post by Erik-El on Mar 15, 2011 14:07:02 GMT -5
Okay good. So we settled that he is not insane. He is mentally disturbed.
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Post by Admin on Mar 15, 2011 14:08:29 GMT -5
WE have, but I know Crom will want to continue this. I think Spidey might disagree a bit as well.
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Post by Erik-El on Mar 15, 2011 14:14:26 GMT -5
Fortunately there is nothing to debate on the issue. Insanity is a legal term, not a clinical one and Frank does not fit the legal description of insane.
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