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Post by Lunacyde Prime on Mar 23, 2011 15:53:55 GMT -5
I've decided to begin a series of discussions around a central formula. Basically I will take a hero and put him in another hero's shoes so that he/she has to contend with a new set of enemies in a new locale.
For the sake of discussion the hero in question is moved to the new location where the villains make their home base. For example if Batman was facing Spider-Man's Rogues he would be moved to New York City. The hero retains all powers/abilities/skills/gear/resources and remains in character with no change to personality or motivation.
This is an open-discussion about how the hero would do is said situation. Any topic involved therein is fair game for discussion, and those who post have complete control over the discussion so long as it pertains to the topic in the most general sense. A few conversation starting questions I would like to see discussed are...
1. How sucessful or unsuccessful do you believe the hero would be?
2. What different things does this hero bring to the table when fighting this group of opponents and defending this new locale? What are his/her strengths? Weaknesses?
3. What does this hero bring to the table in this environment? not only on a physical level, but also on a story-telling level. What kind of match-ups would you look forward to?
4.How would the citizens view this new hero?
5. How does this hero's philosophy or outlook effect his environment and these villains? For example if Frank Castle was placed in Gotham City his philosophy of killing criminals will be very different from Batman who does not kill.
Those are just a few to spark conversation.
For our first discussion lets assume Wolverine was to take Spider-Man's place. Both are familiar with each other and have served on teams together. Wolverine knows his way around New York, he's spent plenty of time there as an Avenger. How would Logan fare?
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Post by Lunacyde Prime on Mar 23, 2011 16:24:34 GMT -5
Bump
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Post by Admin on Mar 23, 2011 16:29:35 GMT -5
Ooo, I'll dive into detail later...But to keep things short, I think "well" is a good answer to how he'd do  |
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Post by Lunacyde Prime on Mar 23, 2011 17:59:42 GMT -5
I think personally it's an interesting concept and would produce some very interesting storylines and fights. Many of Spider-Man's foes are animalistic brawlers which fits in very well with Logan's animalistic nature. On one side i ike to see the skilled martial arts master, however I also like the basic animal themes being represented. The idea of him fighting the Lizard or Scorpion really interests me.
Wolverine will most likely find himself outclassed by most of the villains, however his staying power and skill will make him a dangerous match for most of them. Where it will really get interesting is when logan has to face characters like Hydro-man, Sandman, Electro, Shocker, mr. Negative etc who may require more than brutality and a powerful healing factor to overcome. We'll get to see how smart he is, and how well he can improvise against such opponents.
I also like the idea of Kraven trying to hunt Wolverine.
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Post by DedmanWalkin on Mar 23, 2011 18:11:51 GMT -5
I don't think that Wolverine would do too well against Spider-man's villains. Spidey's rogues are way more mobile and way more powerful than Wolverine. Wolverine won't be able to keep up with the likes of Sandman or the Green Goblin. Wolverine is damn near unkillable but his lack of mobility and effective ranged attacks will leave him quickly defeated. I don't think he could take a combined assault from some rosters of the Sinister Six.
His matchups with Kraven and Venom will be thoroughly entertaining especially given how Venom will appeal to his animalistic side. I am also interested to see how his interactions with J. Jonah Jameson. As Wolverine doesn't really have an alter-ego or need for one, he can operate more transparently. I doubt that he would have as many fans in the citizenry as Spidey does thanks to his more gruff personality.
Overall, I think Wolverine would be a poor replacement for Spider-man thanks to his physical limitations and personality quirks.
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Post by Lunacyde Prime on Mar 23, 2011 18:22:48 GMT -5
Now that i think about it you definately have a point. Especially with a number of Spidey's villains being able to fly or move extremly rapidly through the city. I don't think Wolverine would be able to keep up or stop as much as Spidey does. however in combat speed I don't think Wolverine should have too much trouble personally.
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Post by Admin on Mar 23, 2011 19:28:07 GMT -5
I only see characters like the symbiotes, Hydo-Man and Sandman (we're talking about his standard gallery, I assume) being major difficulties/highly unlikely for him to defeat.
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Post by Morpheus on Mar 23, 2011 19:39:20 GMT -5
Spider-Man facing Wolverine's rogues gallery would also be interesting.
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Post by Admin on Mar 23, 2011 19:40:50 GMT -5
Spider-Man facing Wolverine's rogues gallery would also be interesting. I've got $5 on Omega Red in the second round. Is it wrong to think him smacking around LD would be hilarious, though? |
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Post by DedmanWalkin on Mar 23, 2011 19:45:55 GMT -5
Given how Pete reacted to the near death of Aunt May, it would be interesting to see how long it takes him to lose his optimism and become the killer that Logan is, especially with the brutality of Creed and Romulus.
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Post by Morpheus on Mar 23, 2011 19:47:26 GMT -5
Spider-Man facing Wolverine's rogues gallery would also be interesting. I've got $5 on Omega Red in the second round. Is it wrong to think him smacking around LD would be hilarious, though?
No, Deathstrike has it coming. Mister X vs Spider-Man would be glorious. |
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Post by Erik-El on Mar 23, 2011 19:54:25 GMT -5
I do not think Dedman is giving Wolverine a fair shake. Sure he cannot combat the villains in the same way but then again, that is not what this thread is about. It is about how well they would do against the villains. Wolverine is limited in mobility in the sense that he does not swing around the city. BUT he can jump inhumanly high when he wants to and he can track most of the villains back to whatever location they run off to for a more convenient battle.
Wolverine would still fight the villains his way. He would not try to fight them Spider-Man's way. I think he would do well against most of the villains. The ones he could not beat in a fight, he would take out through other means. He has a lot of money (little known fact) and he has a lot of resources.
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Post by Morpheus on Mar 23, 2011 19:55:58 GMT -5
I do not think Dedman is giving Wolverine a fair shake. Sure he cannot combat the villains in the same way but then again, that is not what this thread is about. It is about how well they would do against the villains. Wolverine is limited in mobility in the sense that he does not swing around the city. BUT he can jump inhumanly high when he wants to and he can track most of the villains back to whatever location they run off to for a more convenient battle. Wolverine would still fight the villains his way. He would not try to fight them Spider-Man's way. I think he would do well against most of the villains. The ones he could not beat in a fight, he would take out through other means. He has a lot of money (little known fact) and he has a lot of resources. |
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Post by jakefury on Mar 23, 2011 20:01:42 GMT -5
I think Logan would do well against Peter's rogues as well.
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Post by Erik-El on Mar 23, 2011 20:13:43 GMT -5
I do not think Dedman is giving Wolverine a fair shake. Sure he cannot combat the villains in the same way but then again, that is not what this thread is about. It is about how well they would do against the villains. Wolverine is limited in mobility in the sense that he does not swing around the city. BUT he can jump inhumanly high when he wants to and he can track most of the villains back to whatever location they run off to for a more convenient battle. Wolverine would still fight the villains his way. He would not try to fight them Spider-Man's way. I think he would do well against most of the villains. The ones he could not beat in a fight, he would take out through other means. He has a lot of money (little known fact) and he has a lot of resources. Lol. But seriously, he has loads of money ferreted away from decades of shady dealings and other works. Plus his "eyes and ears" peppered throughout the city. He almost does not even need his enhanced senses to track villains that insist on staying in one city. |
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Post by DedmanWalkin on Mar 23, 2011 21:31:30 GMT -5
Any money he has, he can't use. Norman Osborn and the myriad of other business minded villains will immediately track it to its source and use it against him. Peter Parker didn't have any problems because he had no money to track and little illicit connections. Whatever illicit resources that Wolverine may have, Osborn has as well and are likely better. Norman will use his business acumen to annihilate Logan if he tries to compete monetarily.
He can track some of them back to their bases but some he will be unable to do so. Sandman and Hydro-Man have complete control over all of their molecules making them completely untraceable. Others like the aforementioned Osborn will be completely protected by his legitimate image.
And how he survives an attack by various incarnations of the Sinister Six is still beyond me. Electro alone, especially once he discovers his electromagnetic powers, will absolutely destroy him. Once Doc Ock gets his Adamantium arms, Doc Ock should destroy him. How does he even fight people like Vulture or any of the Goblins? They can completely kite him?
I have great respect for Wolverine as a character but he won't be as effective against Spider-man's villains as Spidey.
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Post by jakefury on Mar 23, 2011 22:13:23 GMT -5
I don't think Logan would bother to attempt to compete monetarily. That'd be like the Terminator suing John Connor with a lawyer.
He does have other resources though that the villains couldn't control. He'd come up with something.
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Post by Power NeXus on Mar 23, 2011 22:38:16 GMT -5
I don't think Logan would fare well patrolling Manhattan by himself. Unlike Pete, he doesn't have webs, or any other means of fast transportation. If a major crime is going down somewhere, the only way he can get to it is by running. He might be able to run along the rooftops to adhere to the superhero style, but he wouldn't be able to go too far before running out of evenly-elevated rooftops. Or maybe he could take a taxi to the crime scene.
Point is, if Logan wants to do the superhero gig, he has to be on a team with a jet, or at least find himself a jetpack or extendable cable or something.
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Post by Erik-El on Mar 23, 2011 22:53:43 GMT -5
I don't think Logan would fare well patrolling Manhattan by himself. Unlike Pete, he doesn't have webs, or any other means of fast transportation. If a major crime is going down somewhere, the only way he can get to it is by running. He might be able to run along the rooftops to adhere to the superhero style, but he wouldn't be able to go too far before running out of evenly-elevated rooftops. Or maybe he could take a taxi to the crime scene. Point is, if Logan wants to do the superhero gig, he has to be on a team with a jet, or at least find himself a jetpack or extendable cable or something. Not true. How many times have you seen Wolverine even use X-Men or Avengers resources to loop the world several times over in his own title? And again, as I already stated, Wolverine fights differently than Spider-Man. Spider-Man stops the crime from happening. Wolverine prevents it from happening ever again. To reiterate, this is not a "Can Wolverine fight Spider-Man villains the way Spider-Man does?". |
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Post by DedmanWalkin on Mar 23, 2011 23:19:22 GMT -5
If adopts that style of crimefighting in New York he'll run afoul of Avengers, the FF, and any number of New York city heroes. He only gets away with murder when he does it against small towns. Frank Castle is the only successful in his killing spree because he isn't fighting people like Osborn or Fisk. If he starts offing prominent businessmen and philanthropists in the middle of New York, he'll quickly be hunted down by the good guys.
I know he won't fight Spidey's villains like Spider-man but he still has to fight them and when it comes down to it, they have him sorely outclassed. Spider-man is peak street level and even he has difficulty with his own villains. Wolverine is a mid-tier street leveler at best. Unless he expands his weaponry like Frank did, he won't be able to compete.
I would love to hear how he might take down people like Electro, Sandman, and Hydro-Man.
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