Lance
Team Buster Ledger
It's never Lupus
Posts: 2,524
|
Post by Lance on Apr 26, 2011 2:58:18 GMT -5
Simply put, you're reaching to place blame on a manufactured incident by another party. Yes, the Illuminati sent the Hulk away. They didn't force Declun to do anything against his will. His plan, and he could have come up with a dozen others. The SHRA can be pinned to him because of idiocy, not because of the Illuminati sending something that actually does menace society away. Why? The Hulk was happy on Sakaar. He'd found a home, a wife, a people that loved him. He was content to stay there. Until Miek blew up the ship. Not the Illuminati's fault the alien is a douchebag. Unless Charles Xavier was controlling his mind or something. But hey, way to go on pinning the death of a planet on a group of people who inadvertently ended up saving the planet from tyranny when the Hulk showed up there And, y'know, decimation. The Skrulls were scared shitless of the mutant population because they feared that one of them may have the power to destroy their plans. It wasn't until Wanda mucked up the population that Secret Invasion really got underway. And with SHIELDS apparent control by HYDRA, those resources that could have gone towards tracking skulls or others were placed elsewhere. The only thing the Illuminati are really guilty of is not using the infinity gems to halt all of these events.
|
|
|
Post by DedmanWalkin on Apr 26, 2011 12:38:56 GMT -5
No, the Illuminati made a drastic change to the environment without first thinking of the consequences. Sharks are a menace but if you removed all sharks you would kill several species of fish and cause other species to explode causing massive damage to the environment. The Illuminati made their decision not realizing the potential fallout which shouldn't happen since two of the smartest people on the planet are on it. The Illuminati put Damage Control in a position were they would have to either adapt or die, they hired Declun to save them. Batman tried something similar when he tried to take all the mob's money in the Dark Knight, it forced them into an adapt or die situation which caused them to enlist the Joker. Both were stupid moves on the part of the good guys that caused enough death to make it not worth doing. Their stupidity is compounded by the fact that the Intelligentsia figured out a way to depower the Hulk for quite a while until Osborn messed it up. The Bad Guys figured out how to do what the good guys could not do.
The Hulk is also not a menace to society, Amadeus Cho explains that throughout the Hulk's long storied past, his kill count is remarkably small if anything at all. The only thing he does do is create destruction which provides jobs and a means for improving infrastructure. Is this hard on people? Sure, but it is no harder than any other disaster of which still occur on Marvel Earth.
The Hulk did not save Sakaar, did you not listen to any of the prophecy? His arrival was always the herald of its doom. Miek did nothing but save the Hulk from being killed by his son. Hiro-Kala, the Hulk's son, would still have figured out that the Old Power was evil and would have destroyed Sakaar like he has so many worlds. Also, the Hulk was not happy on Sakaar, the Green Scar was. The Hulk could possibly have been happy on the planet he was supposed to end up on.
The Skrulls were not scared shitless by the Mutants. There has been no mutant who could have opposed their plan that could not currently oppose their plan. All the most powerful mutants have their powers still and they were useless to stop them. Also, mutants and the X-men are very easily dealt with, just throw some Sentinels at them and they won't be bothering you. They could have easily initiated Second Coming to keep the mutants at bay. There were numerous non-mutants who could have mucked up their plans but rather than being on the streets whereby they could investigate they were busy either being locked up by SHRA or being manipulated by the Skrulls into being useless. HYDRA only got into SHIELD thanks to the Civil War dividing the good guys. Anyway you slice it, the Civil War was the main cause for the initial success of the Secret Invasion.
The Infinity Gems are not something that a group of screw ups like the Illuminati need to be using. They can barely make coherent decisions as it is without giving them near unlimited power.
|
|
|
Post by Admin on Apr 26, 2011 13:16:07 GMT -5
Dedman, I agree with Lance regarding WWHulk. Yes, the illuminati sending Hulk away was a step that led to his eventual return and WWHulk, but it's just one of MANY steps.
And don't compare removing Hulk, an individual with the potential to destroy cities, to the genocide of sharks. That's sretching so much it isn't even funny.
|
|
Lance
Team Buster Ledger
It's never Lupus
Posts: 2,524
|
Post by Lance on Apr 26, 2011 16:14:30 GMT -5
So let me get this straight. The Hulk, who has caused billions in property damage, has been so dangerous that numerous Avengers have had to stop his over his career, who's nearly killed his friends, was turned in to a horseman of Apocalypse, and has numerous personalities that could cause all kinds of different hijinks is suddenly comparable to the removal of an entire ecosystem? Are you insane? Suddenly the Illuminati are responsible for the ideas of a mad man who thought the only way to recoup his losses (instead of what most people would do, pack up their toys and go home, or asking others for some help) is to drug up a dangerous villain with an already dangerous substance, and suddenly and inexperienced team trying to stop him is also their fault? You keep trying to blame them for situations they can't control. Er, The Hulk is the Green Scar. It's not like their completely separate entities. And yeah. Hulk was herald of the planets doom. That's why most, if not all of the people of Sakaar think the Hulk is their savior Miek did nothing...except detonate a bomb that killed millions, perhaps billions to instigate a war that destroyed most of New York and ended up with the Hulk beating the hell out of most of Marvel's heroes, that had been his friends for years. He then stabbed Rick Jones so that the Hulk would become the gods damn world breaker and destroy the earth. But yeah. All the Illuminati's fault, right? Did you even read New Avengers? It outlined their plan entirely and why they were afraid of mutant, the genetic time bombs. HYDRA had been in SHIELD for years. Before Fury left the organization. What? How were they going to initiate Second Coming? The Skrulls have nothing to do with Hope and Cable and whether or not they returned to earth. What, are they going to control Bastion? They, the blatant racist and bigot is going to team up with aliens. Who he likely also hates. Great plot there. Mutants in massive quantities comprised an army that could threaten the Skrulls. Wanda was a threat as well. Yeah. Screw ups. Clearly their fault, after all of the events described were performed by dozens of others, that they had no control over. But they're all screw ups. Or, y'know, the Living Tribunal could have made them useless again, like an intelligent deity would.
|
|
|
Post by DedmanWalkin on Apr 27, 2011 0:12:50 GMT -5
@k4tz, it wasn't just that they sent him away it was that they just discarded him like so much trash and then forgot about him. When Amadeus Cho told Reed Richards of the Illuminati's arrogant ignorance, they were genuinely surprised because they had completely forgotten to check on the Bruce Banner, one of their oldest friends. The Hulk is not just an individual he is a force of nature, an integral part of the global ecosystem that is civilization.
@lance The Hulk is a rather dangerous person, that I can concede. However, he is an essential component of the Marvel Universe and more specifically Marvel Earth. He fueled military development, economic development, and a whole subset of industries like Damage Control. His removal would cause all of that to come to an end. His impact on the world is exactly like that of the Shark. The parallels are manifold. Simply put, they removed an integral component of Marvel Earth without ANY attempt to stabilize the vacuum that the Hulk would create. That is not only irresponsible, that is downright idiotic.
The Hulk =/= the Green Scar, they inhabit the same body but are not the same person. The Green Scar is articulate and calculating, the Hulk is inarticulate and aimless. The Hulk, however, is the given name for the penumbra of personalities that all lay within the Bruce Banner. The Illuminati did nothing to ensure that their operation was successful, nothing. And because of their actions, a world was destroyed and millions died. Miek would never have been in that position had the Hulk never come to Sakaar.
The Skrulls had infinite prep, they could have positioned themselves in the Purifiers and SHIELD and then used those two connections to reform Bastion and thus initiate the campaign that Bastion started upon rebirth. The Skrulls had managed to fool even the most powerful sensors without a problem, so why not Bastion? The mutants could not fight both an army of Nimrods and an army of Skrulls at the same time. Dealing with the mutant problem has always been easy, they oftentimes exist in their own subsection of Marvel Earth anyways. Mutants aren't even a single army or single entity. Destabilizing Wanda would be child's play. In her state, she initiated House of M because Quicksilver told her to do so. They would just need to replace Quicksilver and have him get her to do her magic. Mutants have never been a threat thanks to their remarkably isolationist/segregationist tendencies.
If you shoot a bullet up into the air and it comes down and kills someone are you culpable? If you take a course of action without considering the consequences then it is your fault. The Illuminati took one extreme measure without thinking or even compensating for the problems that it would create. Had they used their combined intellect they could have come up with a better solution. This is why they get the blame and why they were holding the idiot ball as Crom suggests.
|
|
Lance
Team Buster Ledger
It's never Lupus
Posts: 2,524
|
Post by Lance on Apr 27, 2011 1:01:12 GMT -5
No, they aren't. Saying technology and modern warfare as we know it advanced because of the hulk is ludicrous. He didn't fuel economic advancement, he bent it over and raped it with billions in property damage. Just like he did with the military. Do you know how much money he's probably cost taxpayers by destroying even a few tanks? Hell, they built him a god damn adamantium statue, and he wrecked shop with that too. They hemorrhaged money because of the Hulk. Then you have people like Red Hulk, and the Leader, and Abomination, who wouldn't exist without the Hulk. But blaming the illuminati because Declun is a whack job? No. They have a lot to answer for, but Declun's idiocy isn't one of them.
The Green Scar is just another personality of Bruce Banner. They aren't separate people. No, because of their actions Hulk ended up freeing a world from a tyrannical douche bag. Miek was put in that position because he wanted the World Breaker back. He wanted war, he wanted revenge. Hulk didn't. Once again, blaming the Illuminati for Mieks mental instability is ridiculous.
How did they have infinite prep? They weren't planning this from the dawn of time. And they had positioned themselves in SHIELD. Jarvis, tony's butler. Tony was directing SHIELD at the time. And they placed themselves in HAMMER. And The Hand. They weren't going to infiltrate the purifiers because Bastion because Bastion was a super advanced sentinel hybrid thing that regularly checked up on his contacts and pawns. Most of them were techno organic anyway. And Second Coming could only occur when Hope returned from jumping through time. Obviously, not at the time of the Skrull Invasion. Yeah, Mutants have never been a threat. Because I mean, Genosha was childs play. An island of mutants? All living together? Why, perish the thought. Being isolationist doesn't mean they wouldn't have risen up to kick Skrull ass, considering Magneto's staunch belief that Mutants are destined to inherit the earth. Hard to inherit when Skrulls are taking over.
So... shooting a bullet up in the air is tantamount to a whack job giving Nuke MGH and an alien blowing up an entire planets population. Surely, this is the goal of the Illuminati. People aren't bullets. These people made their choice, and in the end, Miek and Declun made choices. The Illuminati aren't responsible for the choices others make. Calling them idiots because other peoples insane end games is ridiculous. The only catastrophe they really had a hand is is the latest fiasco with the infinity gems. Which all could have been solved by -gasp- The Living Tribunal. Oh, the power of plot.
|
|
|
Post by DedmanWalkin on Apr 27, 2011 3:29:04 GMT -5
Of course it is ridiculous to think that the military and technology as we know it is due to the Hulk because the Hulk is not in our universe. However, on Marvel Earth Hulk did fuel technology and military development. Iron Man only went back to the drawing board after the Hulk trounced him. With the Hulk to focus on, the government could not frivolously waste money funding other pointless things. The only thing that really brings people together is a threat, the Hulk filled that role while also beating the crap out of baddies. How many jobs do you think he created in manufacturing, construction, and general repair? Much like the Shark and its symbiotic Remora, the Hulk has millions of people in several industries that rely upon him to do what he does. The Illuminati caused Damage Control considerable losses.
Declun isn't a whack job, he did what any Marvel businessman trying to save the company that he was hired to save would do. Simply put, had they not sent the Hulk away, Damage Control would not have had to go to someone as corrupt as Declun to save them. No Declun means no MGH for Nitro which means no Stamford.
But lets be honest here, the governments in comics have what appears to be unlimited money. They can secretly build dozens of helicarriers, multiple space stations, sentinel building programs, and dozens of secret bases. They would need trillions of dollars to maintain these programs and that is before they fund medicare or social security or roads.
Miek did not kill everyone on the planet just the people in one city, the Hulk's kids killed millions if not billions more than Miek did. The only reason why the Hulk landed on Sakaar was because the Illuminati did not monitor one of their oldest friend's ship to ensure it landed safely. Their negligence makes them responsible for genocide on a planetary scale. Had the Hulk landed on the intended planet, he would never have met Miek and an entire planet would still be alive today.
What I mean by infinite prep is that they could choose when to implement their plan. Eli Bard infiltrated the Purifiers without a problem, I see no reason why the Skrulls could not. Only his elite were T-O, everyone else was human, except for Bard. Multiple pawns of Bastion ultimately betrayed him. I did not mean that literally the plot of Second Coming could occur just the campaign that Bastion lead against the mutants. Tell me again what happened to all the mutants on Genosha? Oh yeah, they were slaughtered by 3 sentinels deployed by Cassandra Nova. Remember, that happened quite a bit before Decimation. 16 Million mutants all dead in moments with only Earth level technology. What a threat they were! Mutants tend to segregate themselves, taking them out would be no problem.
The Illuminati are not responsible for other's actions but they are responsible for the fallout that their actions create. There is a direct correlation between abortion and crime. If those right wing crazies ever make abortion illegal and crime goes up because of it, is that not their fault? They would be taking something that was part of the current ecosystem of the United States without taking into account the potential fallout.
As for the Living Tribunal, most high power beings are functionally useless when it comes to solving problems. As the good book says, God helps those who help themselves.
|
|
Lance
Team Buster Ledger
It's never Lupus
Posts: 2,524
|
Post by Lance on Apr 27, 2011 4:48:20 GMT -5
I'm not sure what I'm more shocked by. The fact that you think removing the hulk is similar to removing an entire species from the ocean, or that you think throwing money at problems caused by the Hulk couldn't be better spent dealing with the hundreds - nay, thousands of other villains in the world. Especially considering the Hulk could be trounced by several Avengers on a good day. The Avengers can't be everywhere. Stop blaming Declun's shitty choice on a group completely removed from the incident.
So wait. Giving Nitro (a known villain) a dangerous drug that caused him to kill several of the New Warriors as well as fracture a nation is a legitimate and sane way to boost your dieing business? No common sense = MGH for Nitro. But clearly, Declun was the sane one in this endeavor.
Build dozens of helicarriers? SHIELD is a U.N. organization. And they only built so many helicarriers. Tony eventually started putting his own money in to the organization. If governments in comics had an unlimited supply of funds, then why not sink money in to a "destroy the Skrulls" machine? Or some sort of Galactus defense system.
Yeah, the Hulks kid was a douche. But we aren't talking about him. We're talking about Mieks bad decision. And uh, that planet was destined to be destroyed anyway. Courtesy of Galactus nomming it down later. They aren't responsible for Hulk procreating, nor are they responsible for Hiro-Kala's state of mind.
Bard ended up being a loyal member of the purifiers. Sure, he wanted their souls for Selene, but without him, Bastion wouldn't have been back. And the higher ups are all that mattered.
Do you keep missing this? They feared that one mutant may be born with the power to reveal their disguises, effectively ruining the plan to blend in with humanity. Millions of mutants, all with distinctly different capabilities. Want to bet that not a single one of them could have had an ability capable of seeing through the Skrulls disguises? Or the chances of Wanda saying "no more Skrulls", or any number of other mutants at the time noticing that the Skrulls parading around as mutants weren't actually mutants?
"Oh shit guys, they outlawed abortion. Time to slaughter my classmates, or rob a bank." See where I'm going? That's a pretty extreme correlation to be drawing on that one. Yeah. The Illuminati sent Hulk in to space. But Hulk sent it off course. At that point, even if they had checked in on Hulk, there was nothing they could do. They were in the midst of a civil war because of Decluns dick move to keep his company afloat by providing a known criminal with a dangerous drug. The only thing you're doing at this point is absolving two pricks in the form of Miek and Declun of responsibility. If I were Declun, I'd rather risk my employees lose jobs than have a new employee destroy part of a town and ruin it forever, tarnish the reputation of a few kids, and cause a schism between Marvel's heroes that could have been spent prepping for other things. Declun caused the SHRA, and Declun is to blame for Civil War. Don't try to pass the buck on to the Illuminati because they deprived a few hundred construction workers of a job. And don't try to rationalize Miek detonating a bomb on Hulks ship because he wanted the World Breaker back. But it will still be the Illuminati's fault. Because who would have known Declun was insecure about his finances and losing his company, or that Hulk would wind up on a planet they'd never heard of where a homicidal alien would kill numerous people in the name of bringing back his hero. That's a pretty severe correlation to create for the sake of two mad men.
Yeah. Y'know, except for those other two times he intervened when the Infinity Gauntlet was brought in to a plot. Clearly, he's got better things to do then solve a universal crisis that could destroy cosmic balance. Despite solving those problems before.
|
|
InnerVenom123
Team Buster Ledger
Venom: Lethal Avenger!
Posts: 2,570
|
Post by InnerVenom123 on Apr 27, 2011 10:42:17 GMT -5
Who is Declun and why have I never heard of him? How did he cause the Civil War?
|
|
|
Post by DedmanWalkin on Apr 27, 2011 11:58:30 GMT -5
Walter Declun was the one time CEO of Damage Control. Damage Control is a company the cleans up after superhero brawls. Thanks to massive profit loss due to the Illuminati sending the Hulk away, Declun decided to stage his own massive disaster by giving MGH to Nitro. Nitro, as your are aware, is the person who destroyed Stamford leading to the SHRA which lead to the Civil War.
You would only know of this guy if you had read Wolverine's Civil War Tie-In. If you can find it, it is a reasonably good read. It is quite interesting that the only person to actually investigate the explosion in Stamford was Wolverine. The Illuminati could not be arsed to actually investigate.
|
|
InnerVenom123
Team Buster Ledger
Venom: Lethal Avenger!
Posts: 2,570
|
Post by InnerVenom123 on Apr 27, 2011 12:59:53 GMT -5
Amazed no one else investigated.... did Wolverine tell anyone?
|
|
|
Post by DedmanWalkin on Apr 27, 2011 14:35:09 GMT -5
InnerVenom123, I assume he told someone. While doing his investigation, he is actually detained no less than 2 times by Illuminati members, Stark and Namor. @lance Do you ever think about consequences? The Hulk destroying stuff makes them replace it with newer more modern infrastructure leading to more efficiency. Because of the Hulk, millions of people have shiny new homes with new appliances and higher appraised property values. During Civil War, one of Damage Control's representatives said that prices for repairs to the Baxter building were so low because of the modularity built into New York buildings. Modularity that only exists because of the Hulk's rampages. The research done to make defenses against the Hulk lead to quite a few breakthroughs. Iron Man is only as powerful as he is today because of the Hulk. Had the Hulk not handed him his ass on multiple occasions, Stark would not have needed to keep upping the power on his armor. NASA has had a pretty runaway budget for years and because of it they have developed things that would not have otherwise been developed. Are you saying that runaway budgets are a bad thing because NASA is a perfect real world example of the benefits of it. For construction to take place there must be destruction. It isn't like the world isn't complicit in his rampages, all the Hulk wants is to be left alone yet they still send waves of military forces after him so they can dissect him and create more. Or did you forget that the government made the Hulk. If you create a weapon of mass destruction and it gets accidentally released, who is culpable? You are. Anytime a major element changes in any environment, like say the encroaching of humans into forests those humans, though initially problematic will eventually become part of that ecosystem. Now if we suddenly left, then the various animals and plants that relied on us would either die or adapt. The same thing is evident here with the Hulk, he is added to the global ecosystem that is our civilization and civilization adapts by creating industries to deal with him. If after several years you remove him, then all those industries will either have to adapt or die. Damage Control is direct proof of my claim. As Dark Reign showed, SHIELD may be a UN organization but that did not stop the President of the UNITED STATES not the UN from completely disbanding it and giving its resources to Norman Osborn. SHIELD may be a UN organization but nearly all of its funding comes straight from the UNITED STATES government. Stark did not put in his own money, in fact he used government money to subsidize Avengers Tower and a good portion of his own company. This is why Norman Osborn essentially takes ownership of everything Stark owned during Dark Reign. Reed Richards did build a machine to fight Galactus and it was so expensive that running it for a few moments was costing the government trillions of dollars. They used it to fight the Nu Earth defender CAP. Skrulls had already infiltrated the government, they would have not allowed the government to build a device that would stop them. I didn't draw the correlation, that was two mathematicians who went through Mythbusters style to try and explain the dramatic drop in crime in the 90s. Up until the dramatic drop in crime in the 90s, crime rates were rising pretty steadily each year and it shocked most experts that the crime rate dropped so dramatically. Ultimately after having done the research, the mathematicians concluded that the biggest factor in the drop in crime during the 90s was Roe V Wade in 1973. It wouldn't be an instant thing, it would take time but the crime rate would start to rise and eventually reach dizzying heights. Sending the Hulk off world didn't immediately screw up Damage Control, it took time but eventually when it came time to decide whether to adapt or die, the company chose to adapt like most companies would do. The Illuminati are to blame for Damage Control's situation and since their situation caused Civil War, they are to blame. The Illuminati are not responsible for the Hulk procreating. They are however responsible for not ensuring that the Hulk landed on their intended planet. Their idiocy lead to them sending him away in the first place and their negligence lead to the Hulk being on Sakaar. The Hulk was never supposed to go to Sakaar! They had chosen an uninhabited planet where the Hulk, rather that the Green Scar, could be happy and alone just like the Hulk always wanted. Anything that happens because of their negligence is their fault. If a company's employee neglects to follow the company's rules and someone down the line gets hurt, who's fault is it? The company's fault despite the employee being the one who actually created the problem. Had the company had more stringent hiring practices or had more oversight over these employees they could have ensure that no one would be hurt. Had the Illuminati not sent the Hulk away or had more oversight on his journey they could have ensured that Civil War or WWH would not have happened. I think Namor put it best, "Banner will come back from whence you send him and he will kill you all! And he'll be right!" If this is not an indictment for the Illuminati's crimes then I don't know what would convince you. Don't think I am absolving those who are still guilty of crimes. They both paid the price for their crimes whereas the Illuminati hasn't. And don't you dare say that Dark Reign was the price. Why were the Skrulls worried about a hypothetical mutant child who could see through their disguises when there were already many normal humans who could do it? Delroy Garrett and the previous 3D Man could already do it. The Shapeshifting Members of the Skrull Kill Krew could already do it. Crusader, a former Skrull agent, could have used his ring to reveal all Skrulls around him, he even figured out that Hank Pym was a Skrull long before the invasion ever occurred. That hypothetical child you spoke of was the LEAST of their worries, taking out those that could already detect them should have been a higher priority. As I have already said, Wanda would have been easier to manipulate than say manipulating the entire United States government into building doomsday devices in all 50 states. Oh yeah, those doomsday devices, they were built by Reed and given to Stark who gave them to the Skrulls. In fact, had the Skrulls really wanted to destroy the majority of Earth's superhero community, they could have done so during World War Hulk.
|
|
Lance
Team Buster Ledger
It's never Lupus
Posts: 2,524
|
Post by Lance on Apr 27, 2011 21:01:47 GMT -5
What? The government didn't make the hulk, Banner was turned in to the hulk after a freak accident. What history are you reading? Iron Man is only as powerful as he is today because he had to research new armors to combat new threats. In regards to the Hulk, he built the Hulkbuster armor. That was it. He wasn't building a new armor every time the Hulk started shit with him. Yeah. Hulk destroys buildings and forces people to create new buildings and infrastructure. What happens if the old infrastructure if -gasp- still working? Then we don't have to waste resources building new shit because the Hulk wanted to smash and spend billions of dollars cleaning up after him. Er, Damage Control is the only company that was in danger of going under, simply because they couldn't find other revenue streams. That's not because of the Hulk, that's because apparently everyone involved in that business is a moron. The world disbanded SHIELD. Doesn't mean all of it's funding came from the U.S., and the President disbanding it is bullshit as well, because it's not a U.S. organization. Once again, the Illuminati aren't to blame for Declun being a shitty businessman. He could have found any number of different revenue streams. He decided to give Nitro MGH. I can't even fathom how you can justify Declun's insanity being caused by the Illuminati. He didn't want to pack up his game and admit it was over, or find something else to do. The Illuminati sent Hulk off World. Declun gave a dangerous and violent criminal a drug to boost his powers. Seems like a pretty far jump for a man you claim isn't a complete nut job. No they aren't. The Hulk sent it off course. They have no control after that point. What were they supposed to do, drop everything and fly out to Sakaar? They were busy with Civil War and a host of other problems. The Illuminati isn't a company, and the Hulk isn't breaking any rules. In a company, checking on an employee is a lot easier then dropping all current events to check on the Hulk, who for the most part, can handle himself. Which he did, brilliantly. He went to Sakaar and found a happier life then he likely would have on the uninhabited planet. Uh, Namor was only right because Miek wanted a world breaker. Otherwise, the Hulk had no intention of ever coming back. Because, y'know, happier on Sakaar, with his queen and his family and his supposedly loyal warbound. You keep on talking abut negligence. What abut Hulks negligence, not realizing that one of his own betrayed him, rather then taking his ball to earth and creating a hissy fit and making his friends fight to the death over something it turns out they weren't responsible for in the first place. His friend got stabbed and nearly killed because Hulk wanted to smash instead of find the real answer to the problem. Miek blowing up that ship isn't the Illuminati's fault. It wasn't. Dark Reign occurred on a fluke. Norman Osborn intercepted information and happened to make a head shot. You're spinning the events caused by two douchebags and at this point, arguing for the sake or arguing that the illuminati, who's only involvement was to send the Hulk out to space, which the Hulk then sent off course and to a planet where he found peace. Yeah. The difference between the hypothetical child and the people you listed is that everyone knows mutants exist. They had no idea the kill krew or 3D man or Crusader could even work through the disguises. The mutants however, were millions strong and rampant amongst the population, with any number of power sets. Yeah, I doubt Wanda would have taken kindly to an alien race replacing her brother. I can't imagine what she'd do once she figured out. Because clearly, Magneto would never realize that his son was actually an alien bent on taking out his species
|
|
|
Post by DedmanWalkin on Apr 28, 2011 2:05:29 GMT -5
The Government paid for the gamma bomb that made the Hulk possible. The government hired Bruce to make a weapon of mass destruction, he did, himself. The main reason why the military was so gung ho on capturing him was to dissect him. He represented millions, possibly billions of dollars in research. Iron Man does pretty much build a new armor when the Hulk beats him down. The Hulkbuster is just specifically made to fight the Hulk and it he rarely has it when he fights the Hulk.
Damage Control was once run by Wilson Fisk and Tony Stark. In fact, the very same actions that Declun took to cash in on the company, Wilson Fisk essentially did during Acts of Vengeance. Stark sold his interest in the company to escape being linked to Fisk. Heck, SHIELD even took ownership of Damage Control after Fisk's plot. When Damage Control started failing thanks to the loss of the Hulk, Tony must have made them go public to find more revenue streams. Walter Declun swooped in and bought the company. Walter Declun may be a bad guy but he was given the means, the motive, and the opportunity on a silver platter by no less than Tony Stark.
The world did not disband SHIELD, Norman Osborn did after the President unilaterally appointed him its head. I don't care if it was bullshit, it happened.
Walter Declun isn't a shitty businessman, in fact had Wolverine not investigated he would have made billions without ever being brought to justice because the Illuminati couldn't be arsed. Where have I justified it? I have as much as admitted that he committed a crime but again he paid the price. In terms of Marvel businessmen and heck, even real world businessmen, he is pretty sane and pretty damned savvy. Or do you also think that the executives at AIG and Goldman Sachs are shitty, insane businessmen as well?
The Hulk did not send it off course, the wormhole to Sakaar set it off course and sucked it in. Had the Illuminati simply monitored the craft and noted that it was headed for a wormhole they could have righted its course. When Amadeus Cho told them about the Hulk's shuttle, they seemed completely unaware that it had never reached its destination and that it had crashed landed on another planet. A company is just a bunch of people coming together to make something, that essentially describes the Illuminati.
When the Hulk landed on Sakaar and found himself relieved of some of his power, his personality fractured again creating the Green Scar. The Green Scar, a personality invented to help him survive on Sakaar, found happiness on Sakaar not the Hulk. The Illuminati's negligence so traumatized the Hulk that he had to invent a new personality to cope. The Green Scar was the doom of Sakaar, his happiness would not last regardless of Miek's actions. Let's say that Miek did not blow up the ship. What do you think would have happened? Galactus would have come and eaten the planet, the Green Scar would have survived because that is what it does. But he could never save everyone, he would see his planet, his people, and likely some of his best friends die without being able to do anything to stop it. Then he remembers that message that the Illuminati left him and then Miek is in his ear telling him it was their fault and that they sent Galactus. This angers the Green Scar and he still comes to Earth to make them pay for sending him away. Namor was right regardless of Miek's actions. The Green Scar stabbed Rick Jones not the Hulk.
Dark Reign was not a fluke, Osborn and his Thunderbolts were deputized by Tony Stark to bring in heroes which made Osborn privy to a lot of information that he normally would not have had. Norman Osborn did not just happen to intercept the information, he made sure he did.
They did know about the 3D Man's ability because he has fought them before and they knew he was on Earth so why did they not try and track him down and kill him. They would have had to know about the Kill Krew as well since they went about killing their agents for years. Crusader was one of their agents, how could they not know about him? All these people should have been well-known amongst the Skrulls. If the Skrulls were worried about a Hypothetical Mutant Child why weren't they worried about the Inhumans who also receive random powers from the Terrigen Mists. One of them could have gained such an ability and seen Black Bolt for the Skrull he was and tipped them off. The Inhumans are a united race of warriors with a variety of powersets and technology that make them a galactic threat. Using Attilan itself, they can even take them on in Space and win. They are far more of a threat than some hypothetical mutant child.
How would she have known that it wasn't her brother? No Telepath could sense any difference between a Skrull Imposter and the Original. Unless she had reason to suspect her brother was a Skrull she wouldn't have questioned it. Medusa couldn't tell that her own husband was a Skrull so don't think that she would know because he was her brother. Magneto was too busy hiding in Genosha to notice the imposter Xorns's actions, what makes you think he would ever notice his own son was a Skrull especially given his turbulent relationship with him.
I am arguing for the same reason you are arguing, please don't attempt to undermine my argument by misrepresenting it. I don't wish this to become personal.
|
|