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Post by Khaos King on Jun 2, 2011 17:19:56 GMT -5
i recall him saying he has mastered many styles and his admission of the 13 styles was that he said he mastered 13 styles that our now forgotten and lost in time iirc.. not sure if those styles were the bases of the various modern styles. do you have the issue where he stated this? He never mentioned if the styles he knows were forgotten, or not. Just used it as a taunt when Ghost Rider attacked him.It was in Wolverine # 89. And here's Kitty saying Ogun's training has faded, Kitty Pryde and Wolverine # 5. yeh, i remember that issue. it was when he was at the museum as a spirit aspect of himself. makes me wish i wasnt so lazy so i can pull out his old appearance where he states his MA mastery. those 13 are suppose to be the long dead forgotten styles lost in time. but, i will let you have it as him only mastery that still puts him at a lvl 7 fighter. I will find an appropriate place for Ogun and Stick who fall under similar unbrella as well as Kitty. just to let you know wolverine retaught her whats she learned from Ogun as was the point of his MA training with her. it is like reawakening something you already know by teaching them something they learned a year or 5 years ago. it is still there just needs polishing.
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Post by Admin on Jun 2, 2011 17:23:02 GMT -5
Honestly, I'm not seeing why this thread needs to exist. It's basically the same thing as the skill thread, but with a different format.
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Post by Supreme Marvel on Jun 2, 2011 17:25:12 GMT -5
Honestly, I'm not seeing why this thread needs to exist. It's basically the same thing as the skill thread, but with a different format. Co-signed.
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Post by Khaos King on Jun 2, 2011 17:27:58 GMT -5
Honestly, I'm not seeing why this thread needs to exist. It's basically the same thing as the skill thread, but with a different format. it actually not as it is soley based on knowledge.
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Post by Admin on Jun 2, 2011 17:30:16 GMT -5
But knowledge is a key part of the other thread, too.
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Post by Supreme Marvel on Jun 2, 2011 17:30:21 GMT -5
Knowledge of martial arts. Which the other characters in the other thread have. And they are ranked on the level of martial arts they know and how to use it effectively.
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Post by Morpheus on Jun 2, 2011 17:31:30 GMT -5
I already made a case for Ogun being a 7 in CL's fighting skill thread. And not because he's given a 7 by Marvel, either. Their rankings are out of whack. As for him saying his styles were forgotten, I've read all his appearances and I don't recall him stating it, so if you find it I'll be grateful. Unless it was the alternate dimension Ogun who trained Psylocke from Exiles. I admittedly couldn't read through the whole ordeal, it was just a silly rehash of Claremont's own Kitty Pryde and Wolverine.
Wolverine helped her regain her sense of self but it was up to her to do it (hence the point of being able to hold the sword on her own in # 4). The time they were training was extremely short, and unlike Ogun, Logan cannot use a technique to transfer years of knowledge in hours/days. Hence Kitty saying Ogun's training is goe, and she only has her mutant power and the things Logan taught her. Which admittedly were insufficient seeing that Ogun beat her with ease when he stopped toying with her, a feat he repeated in Kitty Pryde: Agent of Shield. Kitty trained further later, but she has done nothing to say she is even a master of anything, let alone better than dozens of others listed here. Case in point, Harada took her to school when they fought.
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Post by Khaos King on Jun 2, 2011 17:33:52 GMT -5
But knowledge is a key part of the other thread, too. only that they know a style and how they fight. here is about how many styles each person knows and rank them accordingly from those who knows the most to the ones that knows the least. if this was the same as the other than characters that are consider at the top of skill in the other thread would rank equally here but they do not some only reach mid or low bottom since they are being placed more or less who beats who in a comic rather than who has the better knowledge and abilities and should win regardless.
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Post by Admin on Jun 2, 2011 17:36:27 GMT -5
The other thread has nothing to do with who beat who in a comic. If that was the case, Alyosha Kravinoff would be at least on par with T'Challa.
Point being: The other thread is intended to be an open and educated discussion on ranking characters in h2h abilities. Not blindly accept anything that happens in a comic.
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Post by Khaos King on Jun 2, 2011 17:39:30 GMT -5
I already made a case for Ogun being a 7 in CL's fighting skill thread. And not because he's given a 7 by Marvel, either. Their rankings are out of whack. As for him saying his styles were forgotten, I've read all his appearances and I don't recall him stating it, so if you find it I'll be grateful. Unless it was the alternate dimension Ogun who trained Psylocke from Exiles. I admittedly couldn't read through the whole ordeal, it was just a silly rehash of Claremont's own Kitty Pryde and Wolverine.Wolverine helped her regain her sense of self but it was up to her to do it (hence the point of being able to hold the sword on her own in # 4). The time they were training was extremely short, and unlike Ogun, Logan cannot use a technique to transfer years of knowledge in hours/days. Hence Kitty saying Ogun's training is goe, and she only has her mutant power and the things Logan taught her. Which admittedly were insufficient seeing that Ogun beat her with ease when he stopped toying with her, a feat he repeated in Kitty Pryde: Agent of Shield. Kitty trained further later, but she has done nothing to say she is even a master of anything, let alone better than dozens of others listed here. Case in point, Harada took her to school when they fought. I've already moved her to where i think she should go keeping what you said in mind. i made this to see how you all rank them from the most known styles and mastery to the least . you are all free to make the list of your own here keeping in mind the criteria i made my list simply to get discussion going and opinion hoping for people to make their own and maybe give reasons for it.
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Post by Morpheus on Jun 2, 2011 17:48:23 GMT -5
I honestly think the topic is kinda redundant, seeing that most of the ground here is covered by what was previously mentioned/debated/discussed in the CL fighting skill thread, but we were in the midst of a debate so I didn't feel like interrupting at the time.
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Post by Khaos King on Jun 2, 2011 17:53:13 GMT -5
i seen the fighting skills and i honestly dont see how its ranking system actually takes MA knowledge into account. you have people with less than 3 or 5 known styles being said to be more skilled than multi skilled fighters.
i can kinda understand how the skill is being gauged but on a pure character knowledge alot of those who are given high skill would fall to the low rungs of a bracket if going solely by MA knowledge
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Post by Admin on Jun 2, 2011 17:55:45 GMT -5
"i seen the fighting skills and i honestly dont see how its ranking system actually takes MA knowledge into account. you have people with less than 3 or 5 known styles being said to be more skilled than multi skilled fighters." So why don't you remark on it in the thread?
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Post by Admin on Jun 2, 2011 17:55:58 GMT -5
The whole point is the list is open for debate/change.
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Post by Khaos King on Jun 2, 2011 18:01:31 GMT -5
to be honest skill in the CL thread is pretty ambiguous to define. I could debate and ask for character A to be put below character B and state how their knowledge exceeds theirs by decades and MA training mastery but it wont do a lick of difference due to people already having made up their minds.
here you remove the ambiguous aspect of skill and judge solely by the knowledge MA styles they know and mastery. Which makes it far more accurate and less ambiguous as well as different from the skill thread.
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Post by Admin on Jun 2, 2011 18:17:43 GMT -5
That's not true. The majority of the characters haven't even been debated over. Just a suggestion was made and then they were thrown into that spot.
I don't see how the term skill is ambiguous unless you want it to be. Their overall skill factors in legitimate showings, training, knowledge, and experience.
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