devias
Street Level Ledger
"Forced kindness is an act of evil."
Posts: 251
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Post by devias on Jul 8, 2011 8:38:45 GMT -5
Bull. Shit.
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Silver
The Unstoppable Ledgernaut
The Fourth Precept
Posts: 4,654
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Post by Silver on Jul 8, 2011 8:46:41 GMT -5
^On that Zoom scan from JSA, let me just repost what I said on the Vine and clear that mess up.
It was still CIS/PIS, but it was not as if the bar was outside Zoom's ability to dodge.
I would like to mention everything with R2-D2. His plot aura is invincible.
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devias
Street Level Ledger
"Forced kindness is an act of evil."
Posts: 251
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Post by devias on Jul 8, 2011 8:56:48 GMT -5
^On that Zoom scan from JSA, let me just repost what I said on the Vine and clear that mess up. It was still CIS/PIS, but it was not as if the bar was outside Zoom's ability to dodge. I would like to mention everything with R2-D2. His plot aura is invincible. Good point. I hadn't thought of that. I agree, anyone so fast that not even Wally can perceive should have dodged that and proceeded to wreck the JSA.
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Beatboks
Team Buster Ledger
Posts: 2,206
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Post by Beatboks on Jul 8, 2011 8:58:51 GMT -5
I agree with silver. Jesse is below Zoom in speed obviously ( her and her father are more than a step or two behind the Flashes Aside from Zooms utter shock here I believe this to be a stress situation/ adrenaline thing for Jesse. Her means of accessing the speed force is different, her "mantra" thing as Johnny explained it means IRS more on faith belief etc In that instance she was desperate when a very close friend was in imminent danger of death, she had no reason to believe her formula would even work just wanted to so badly (kickin the mantra back in) that desperation allowed her to tap the speed force again and I believe to a greater level. Yes it was plot but not bad plot manipulation. It's actually a pretty good reason for her to reach beyond her normal peak (which without she shouldn't have caught the stick) as well as for Zoom to job Obviosly it's a one time deal nothing she can repeat
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Post by Phantom Stargrave on Jul 8, 2011 9:05:14 GMT -5
Any comic with both Darkseid and Superman.
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Post by Phantom Stargrave on Jul 8, 2011 9:07:12 GMT -5
ON a slightly relevant note, There is no such thing as WIS, so can we please stop using it.
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Silver
The Unstoppable Ledgernaut
The Fourth Precept
Posts: 4,654
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Post by Silver on Jul 8, 2011 9:14:06 GMT -5
If anyone cares, I covered a number of Zoom's low showings in this thread. As we know, basically every time Zoom loses, it is a matter of CIS or PIS or a combination thereof. Either that, or the writer failed to conduct research him. Example: Flash: Fastest Man Alive where Bart beats him. The writer had Zoom time traveling and phasing through walls, in spite of the fact that Wally has noted several times that Zoom is unable to vibrate intangible. In other words, the writer of that series thought Zoom was Professor Zoom. www.comicvine.com/forums/battles/7/superboy-prime-vs-zoom/28516/?page=10The most consistent plot device I see for Luke losing a fight or simply performing in combat less impressively than he could is by being injured beforehand. In the Truce at Bakura, Luke was still injured by Sidious' Lightning, since the book took place in the week after RotJ, and due in part of that fact, he was one-shotted by a hit on the head from Bluescale. In Children of the Jedi, Luke suffered head and lung trauma as a result of his ship being fired upon earlier, and because of that, he lost to a band of Gamorreans (LOL). In his second duel with Lumiya, Luke was forced to restrain use of his powers because of the field of battle, which was a densely populated cantina. The outcome was that Lumiya injured him on his side with her light-whip (Luke still won but did so by cheap-shotting her; by rights, she should have won under the circumstances). Later, when Luke dueled Caedus, he was still injured by Lumiya and only stalemated him. This is not to say that every time Luke loses a fight, it was because of plot or a prior injury, because there are several examples of him just plain losing. But his being wounded almost becomes a given in some situations. Phantom Stargrave: How many times have Superman and Darkseid actually fought? I know this will not be a one-word answer, but I would like to find out once and for all.
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Silver
The Unstoppable Ledgernaut
The Fourth Precept
Posts: 4,654
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Post by Silver on Jul 8, 2011 9:24:38 GMT -5
Batman fighting Despero in Trinity. Batman fighting anyone in Superman/Batman. Batman fighting Triumph in Crisis Times.
The list goes on and on.
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spidey_17
The Unstoppable Ledgernaut
With Great Power Comes Great.... suffering?
Posts: 4,961
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Post by spidey_17 on Jul 8, 2011 9:34:32 GMT -5
LOL, I really enjoyed reading that thread where you and zoom( user ) were pretty much owining anyone...
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Beatboks
Team Buster Ledger
Posts: 2,206
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Post by Beatboks on Jul 8, 2011 9:36:11 GMT -5
Alan Scot unable to heal himself in Guggenhiems current crap
Straus Fate making Darkseid show mercy by flooding him with their love
Beamish and war world ( either he's smart enough to do it or not smart enough to constantly get his proverbial handed him by Supes)
Agree with sovereign re Supes and DS
Batman holding his own against Val Armor
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Post by Lord Barbatos on Jul 8, 2011 9:41:59 GMT -5
If anyone cares, I covered a number of Zoom's low showings in this thread. As we know, basically every time Zoom loses, it is a matter of CIS or PIS or a combination thereof. Either that, or the writer failed to conduct research him. Example: Flash: Fastest Man Alive where Bart beats him. The writer had Zoom time traveling and phasing through walls, in spite of the fact that Wally has noted several times that Zoom is unable to vibrate intangible. In other words, the writer of that series thought Zoom was Professor Zoom. www.comicvine.com/forums/battles/7/superboy-prime-vs-zoom/28516/?page=10The most consistent plot device I see for Luke losing a fight or simply performing in combat less impressively than he could is by being injured beforehand. In the Truce at Bakura, Luke was still injured by Sidious' Lightning, since the book took place in the week after RotJ, and due in part of that fact, he was one-shotted by a hit on the head from Bluescale. In Children of the Jedi, Luke suffered head and lung trauma as a result of his ship being fired upon earlier, and because of that, he lost to a band of Gamorreans (LOL). In his second duel with Lumiya, Luke was forced to restrain use of his powers because of the field of battle, which was a densely populated cantina. The outcome was that Lumiya injured him on his side with her light-whip (Luke still won but did so by cheap-shotting her; by rights, she should have won under the circumstances). Later, when Luke dueled Caedus, he was still injured by Lumiya and only stalemated him. This is not to say that every time Luke loses a fight, it was because of plot or a prior injury, because there are several examples of him just plain losing. But his being wounded almost becomes a given in some situations. Phantom Stargrave: How many times have Superman and Darkseid actually fought? I know this will not be a one-word answer, but I would like to find out once and for all. I think they've fought between 9-15 times post crisis. 2 from confidential 2 from OWAW Cosmic Odyssey Countdown 2 from Superman/Batman Apokolips Now 4-5 times Supermans ongoing A couple of times in a New Gods title(2 or 3)
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Post by Phantom Stargrave on Jul 8, 2011 10:08:29 GMT -5
If anyone cares, I covered a number of Zoom's low showings in this thread. As we know, basically every time Zoom loses, it is a matter of CIS or PIS or a combination thereof. Either that, or the writer failed to conduct research him. Example: Flash: Fastest Man Alive where Bart beats him. The writer had Zoom time traveling and phasing through walls, in spite of the fact that Wally has noted several times that Zoom is unable to vibrate intangible. In other words, the writer of that series thought Zoom was Professor Zoom. www.comicvine.com/forums/battles/7/superboy-prime-vs-zoom/28516/?page=10The most consistent plot device I see for Luke losing a fight or simply performing in combat less impressively than he could is by being injured beforehand. In the Truce at Bakura, Luke was still injured by Sidious' Lightning, since the book took place in the week after RotJ, and due in part of that fact, he was one-shotted by a hit on the head from Bluescale. In Children of the Jedi, Luke suffered head and lung trauma as a result of his ship being fired upon earlier, and because of that, he lost to a band of Gamorreans (LOL). In his second duel with Lumiya, Luke was forced to restrain use of his powers because of the field of battle, which was a densely populated cantina. The outcome was that Lumiya injured him on his side with her light-whip (Luke still won but did so by cheap-shotting her; by rights, she should have won under the circumstances). Later, when Luke dueled Caedus, he was still injured by Lumiya and only stalemated him. This is not to say that every time Luke loses a fight, it was because of plot or a prior injury, because there are several examples of him just plain losing. But his being wounded almost becomes a given in some situations. Phantom Stargrave: How many times have Superman and Darkseid actually fought? I know this will not be a one-word answer, but I would like to find out once and for all. I think they've fought between 9-15 times post crisis. 2 from confidential 2 from OWAW Cosmic Odyssey Countdown 2 from Superman/Batman Apokolips Now 4-5 times Supermans ongoing A couple of times in a New Gods title(2 or 3) depends on your definition of battle. Many of these were no more than one punching the other across the room as a means of saying "Hello" and then breaking for the actual plot to take place. Off the top of my head I can recall what I consider actual "battles" 1 in Legends 2 in OWAW 1 from Countdown Apokolips Now 2 from Superman/Batman 1 from Confidential On the other hand, if you list every time they went physical with each other, then yeah, you have it right at about 15.
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devias
Street Level Ledger
"Forced kindness is an act of evil."
Posts: 251
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Post by devias on Jul 8, 2011 10:38:37 GMT -5
I agree with silver. Jesse is below Zoom in speed obviously ( her and her father are more than a step or two behind the Flashes Aside from Zooms utter shock here I believe this to be a stress situation/ adrenaline thing for Jesse. Her means of accessing the speed force is different, her "mantra" thing as Johnny explained it means IRS more on faith belief etc In that instance she was desperate when a very close friend was in imminent danger of death, she had no reason to believe her formula would even work just wanted to so badly (kickin the mantra back in) that desperation allowed her to tap the speed force again and I believe to a greater level. Yes it was plot but not bad plot manipulation. It's actually a pretty good reason for her to reach beyond her normal peak (which without she shouldn't have caught the stick) as well as for Zoom to job Obviosly it's a one time deal nothing she can repeat I agree. But I still think Zoom could've dodged that. I'm not really mad at the fact that Zoom was knocked out by someone he called a 'flasssshhwaannaabee' two pages ago. I was disappointed because of how it ended. Ooooh, Zoom shows up! Will he fight the JSA? No. The guy who fights Flashes with ease gets knocked out by a pole. I'll never forgive Johns for that one.
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Post by Lord Barbatos on Jul 8, 2011 10:44:33 GMT -5
I think they've fought between 9-15 times post crisis. 2 from confidential 2 from OWAW Cosmic Odyssey Countdown 2 from Superman/Batman Apokolips Now 4-5 times Supermans ongoing A couple of times in a New Gods title(2 or 3) depends on your definition of battle. Many of these were no more than one punching the other across the room as a means of saying "Hello" and then breaking for the actual plot to take place. Off the top of my head I can recall what I consider actual "battles" 1 in Legends 2 in OWAW 1 from Countdown Apokolips Now 2 from Superman/Batman 1 from Confidential On the other hand, if you list every time they went physical with each other, then yeah, you have it right at about 15. Yeah i was listing every encounter where they inflicted damage(even minor).
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Post by Power NeXus on Jul 8, 2011 10:53:34 GMT -5
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Silver
The Unstoppable Ledgernaut
The Fourth Precept
Posts: 4,654
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Post by Silver on Jul 8, 2011 10:55:06 GMT -5
I think they've fought between 9-15 times post crisis. 2 from confidential 2 from OWAW Cosmic Odyssey Countdown 2 from Superman/Batman Apokolips Now 4-5 times Supermans ongoing A couple of times in a New Gods title(2 or 3) depends on your definition of battle. Many of these were no more than one punching the other across the room as a means of saying "Hello" and then breaking for the actual plot to take place. Off the top of my head I can recall what I consider actual "battles" 1 in Legends 2 in OWAW 1 from Countdown Apokolips Now 2 from Superman/Batman 1 from Confidential On the other hand, if you list every time they went physical with each other, then yeah, you have it right at about 15. I was aware of most of these already. I like how half of these are written by writers like Loeb or Byrne who are just not very familiar with Darkseid's powers.
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Silver
The Unstoppable Ledgernaut
The Fourth Precept
Posts: 4,654
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Post by Silver on Jul 8, 2011 11:08:05 GMT -5
The Empire and the Imperial Remnants have endured plenty of plot induced events to result in their defeat. The first Death Star's weakness was an all-too-convenient plot device. Thrawn being betrayed by the Noghri was similar. Admiral Daala's consistent failures in the Jedi Academy trilogy are good examples as well, where she faces situations in which she loses immense portions of her fleet to these precise and unplanned circumstances. Dark Empire 2 and Empire's End are riddled with Imperial incompetence and betrayal left and right just so that the New Republic could feasibly defeat Palpatine. The best example of that I can think off the top of my head is when the Galaxy Gun fired a missile at Nespis VIII where the Republic leaders and the Jedi were regrouping, and the missile just so happened to fail to detonate upon impact. But once the Republic forces had just evacuated, another missile connected and destroyed the station. This is not even addressing the long line of traitors who saw to the Emperor's ultimate demise. As a general rule of thumb, stormtroopers are useless morons, unless the plot specifically requires them to do something right.
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devias
Street Level Ledger
"Forced kindness is an act of evil."
Posts: 251
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Post by devias on Jul 8, 2011 11:15:10 GMT -5
Ahh.. this one's a classic. I can barely name anyone who could actually do that to Surfer. Panther's certainly not one of them.
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Post by Phantom Stargrave on Jul 8, 2011 11:16:01 GMT -5
I like how half of these are written by writers like Loeb or Byrne who are just not very familiar with Darkseid's powers. Not as many as you'd think. Byrne actually wrote only one(albeit its retardedness more than makes up for it) fight between Darkseid in Superman. the one in the Legends tie in, which Evainer quickly retconned into being Desaad (That where the whole Desaad posing as him thing started. Loeb didn't write a lot of them either. Loeb did, however, write most of the stupid ones.
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devias
Street Level Ledger
"Forced kindness is an act of evil."
Posts: 251
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Post by devias on Jul 8, 2011 11:18:47 GMT -5
So, in a battle without any stupidity, how much chance does Superman stand against Darkseid?
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