Ancient 0f Days
Jobber Ledger
Obama will pimp slap da Mitt outta ya
Posts: 22
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Post by Ancient 0f Days on Jan 3, 2013 2:01:05 GMT -5
At first he was highly revered as a cosmic (New) God and mighty ruler of Apokolips who slapped around Superman and other heroes left and right whenever he was present. Now, Silver Surfer can beat him in a battle thread.....Even his more powerful PC incarnation is lower on the food chain it seems. Many say,"He can't even beat Superman so *insertwhoever* can beat him easily" and that seems to be commonly accepted as of late. Maybe I'm just a fanboy complaining about how a character I like gets discredited. Maybe Darkseid isn't as powerful as I thought. Or maybe, there's some BS goin around and I'm not buying it.
What do you think?
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Post by Supreme Marvel on Jan 3, 2013 20:50:55 GMT -5
No creativity from some writers. They lack the imagination to have new characters. Now they constantly belittle characters of old to fit their needs. I ignore a lot of what goes on involving Darkseid. I have him in my own rank.
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Post by Crom-Cruach on Jan 3, 2013 21:46:15 GMT -5
Honestly, Darkseid written right should be able to bitchslap Odin into oblivion and send Thor back castrated to his mother, crying
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Post by Phantom Stargrave on Jan 5, 2013 3:55:45 GMT -5
Yeah, basically what they said. Considerable lack of consistency and overexposure led to a number of really bad stories featuring him, and it kinda stuck.
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Post by Lord Barbatos on Jan 5, 2013 8:47:15 GMT -5
Hi guys,been a while.
Back on topic,I agree with what the others have stated but I'd also like to add my own piece,I think this was coming really.Kirby failed to give Darkseid any natural limits,I mean how does the omega force work? how powerful is it? etc,etc.So now we have writers trying to come up with their own limitations,as much as I hate to admit this but I do not see this changing any time soon.Writers may or may not get his personality but I dont think anyone will ever get how his power works and that's why it'll fluctuate depending on the plot
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Post by Phantom Stargrave on Jan 5, 2013 14:22:52 GMT -5
Hey Barbatos.
I think you're right about Darkseid's ill-defined abilities, but I don't think that's really an issue. Darkseid doesn't need to have well defined abilities because his powers (and really, all of the New Gods' powers) are basically magic with the serial numbers filed off. Writers may struggle with the vague rules, but they already do that with the Spectre, Doctor Fate, Doctor Strange, Odin, Morpheus, Thor or any other magical character. They're all very inconsistent in what they can or cannot do, but a general sense of scale involved is usually present.
It's not like writers pay much mind to Kirby either. One of the few important limits Kirby imposed on Darkseid - That he can't actually bring people back from the dead - was very soon discarded.
Darkseid's big problem is that he was repeatedly used as an obstacle for a hero which wasn't on the same level as him, and perhaps the most important aspect of heroes is that they overcome their obstacles. Once you laid Darkseid on that path, decay was inevitable. Other writers ignored that decay, or in some cases presented their own completely different versions of the whole setting (I love Morrison and I'll defend his New Gods to death, but let's face it, it's hardly the most widespread interpretation out there) and thus inconsistency was born.
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Post by Erik-El on Jan 5, 2013 14:34:51 GMT -5
Some nice discussion going on in here.
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Post by Supreme Marvel on Jan 5, 2013 15:48:42 GMT -5
What's the best most recent story involving Darkseid to you approve of, Phantom? Pre52
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Post by Phantom Stargrave on Jan 5, 2013 17:10:57 GMT -5
Seven Soldiers is one of my favorite comics ever. Darkseid is a pretty minor (But important) part of it though. Other than that, Final Crisis.
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Post by jakefury on Jan 5, 2013 20:46:15 GMT -5
Enjoyed Final Crisis, even though it gave me a headache the first few times I read it.
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Ancient 0f Days
Jobber Ledger
Obama will pimp slap da Mitt outta ya
Posts: 22
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Post by Ancient 0f Days on Jan 6, 2013 2:05:48 GMT -5
I wonder if Nu52 Darkseid is ever going to be shown pimp slapping anyone like he used to...
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Post by Lord Barbatos on Jan 6, 2013 3:15:23 GMT -5
Hey Barbatos. I think you're right about Darkseid's ill-defined abilities, but I don't think that's really an issue. Darkseid doesn't need to have well defined abilities because his powers (and really, all of the New Gods' powers) are basically magic with the serial numbers filed off. Writers may struggle with the vague rules, but they already do that with the Spectre, Doctor Fate, Doctor Strange, Odin, Morpheus, Thor or any other magical character. They're all very inconsistent in what they can or cannot do, but a general sense of scale involved is usually present. It's not like writers pay much mind to Kirby either. One of the few important limits Kirby imposed on Darkseid - That he can't actually bring people back from the dead - was very soon discarded. Darkseid's big problem is that he was repeatedly used as an obstacle for a hero which wasn't on the same level as him, and perhaps the most important aspect of heroes is that they overcome their obstacles. Once you laid Darkseid on that path, decay was inevitable. Other writers ignored that decay, or in some cases presented their own completely different versions of the whole setting (I love Morrison and I'll defend his New Gods to death, but let's face it, it's hardly the most widespread interpretation out there) and thus inconsistency was born. True,Spectre,Thor,Galactus etc have jobbed a lot in the recent years but I dont think writers even managed to agree even on the scale of Darkseids powers.The Legion versions are arguably abstract level,but then you have writers who have Darkseid crack apart Imperiex Prime's armor with the OB and the same writers have Superman being able to withstand it  . People have just come to expect too much from the Omega effect,if it can go anywhere at anytime then why doesn't he just wipe all the residents of New Genesis off the face of the universe? |
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Post by Phantom Stargrave on Jan 10, 2013 19:46:11 GMT -5
You know I wanted to continue this debate, but I'm honestly having trouble deciding whether I agree with Barbatos's assessment or not. Damn.  |
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Post by Lord Barbatos on Jan 12, 2013 11:53:41 GMT -5
Another problem is that he has no true anti-thesis,sometimes it's Superman,then it's Orion or it's Highfather,and ofcourse as such his power is gonna fluctuate.I mean Orion is supposed to kill him(or was,whatever),but how the heck is he gonna do it? he cant do it under his power so what?
In my personal head canon I imagine Orion having the ability to tap in to the Omega Effect should he lose control,this in turn would make Darkseid weaker and Orion stronger(got the idea from Kingdom Come where Orion becomes ruler of Apokolips).
I would also start building up Highfather(that guy is criminally lacking in impressive showings),this would in turn make Darkseid more impressive.
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Post by Phantom Stargrave on Jan 14, 2013 19:06:19 GMT -5
I rather like the idea that Orion can't defeat Darkseid. Note that the original prophecy doesn't say Orion will kill Darkseid. Just that they will meet in a final battle at Armaghetto.
I think it adds a nice philosophical note to it. You can't undo evil with war. War only creates more evil no matter how benevolent its intentions are.
The Highfather has always intended to be Darkseid's opposite number though. That's pretty much obvious from looking at their origins.
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Post by Lord Barbatos on Jan 15, 2013 9:17:43 GMT -5
Oh Phantom,I cant remember clearly but what the heck is a Hush Tube? and are there doom tubes as well? also forgot about that time thing Metron gave to Hourman.
I think there should be a thread here that lists all the NG tech and their applications.
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Post by Phantom Stargrave on Jan 15, 2013 14:18:26 GMT -5
Yeah, the Hush tube is exactly what it sounds like. A tube which only lets out a small 'hush' sound when open instead of a BOOM. It's also cloaked in smoke and shadow rather than being an explosion of light. To my knowledge it was used only once by Dr. Impossible in Brad Meltzer's Justice League and never heard of again. Dr. Impossible was some evil copy of Mr. Miracle, I think he was a guy who raided a NG tech vault or something. I don't know, he was in James Robinson's Justice League but by then it was so bad I really couldn't read it.
Doom tube was used by Desaad when he harnessed Highfather's power in the infamous (But actually pretty good) Darkseid-falls-down-stairs story. Desaad used it to send Superman beyond the universe, directly into the Source where he could never come back from.
Metron's thingy was the Worlogog.
A thread about NG tech and applications eh? We could do that. A lot's gathered up over the years but I don't think it would take too long to catalog it all.
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Post by Erik-El on Jan 15, 2013 15:56:34 GMT -5
I love the idea. When will you guys get that started?
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Post by Supreme Marvel on Jan 15, 2013 17:41:59 GMT -5
Would enjoy reading that too.
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Post by Phantom Stargrave on Jan 15, 2013 18:39:45 GMT -5
I'm kinda busy these days but I could start a preliminary catalog with some basic stuff straight away.
You guys have any specifics you'd like to see about the list?
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