Killshot Caine
The Unstoppable Ledgernaut
You Just Mad Cuz i'm Stylin On you!
Posts: 5,732
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Post by Killshot Caine on Dec 12, 2010 15:13:08 GMT -5
For everything Batgirl...enter this thread.
Anyone a fan of Steph Brown as Batgirl?
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Post by Crom-Cruach on Dec 12, 2010 15:37:02 GMT -5
There are only two Bartgirls, Barbara Gordon who became Oracle and the best one, Cassandra Cain, that is all.
Stephanie Brown is Spoiler.
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Killshot Caine
The Unstoppable Ledgernaut
You Just Mad Cuz i'm Stylin On you!
Posts: 5,732
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Post by Killshot Caine on Dec 12, 2010 16:07:06 GMT -5
I like her more as Batgirl than Cassandra
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Post by Crom-Cruach on Dec 12, 2010 16:21:32 GMT -5
HERETIC! BURN THE WITCH! seriously thought. Spoiler isn't close to as cool as Cassandra Cain. And she should never have been batgirl
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Post by goku on Dec 12, 2010 17:34:06 GMT -5
Cassie is my favorite Batgirl and in my top 5 favorite female characters in comics. I like Barbara too, but not a fan of Stephanie.
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Killshot Caine
The Unstoppable Ledgernaut
You Just Mad Cuz i'm Stylin On you!
Posts: 5,732
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Post by Killshot Caine on Dec 12, 2010 19:12:44 GMT -5
HERETIC! BURN THE WITCH! seriously though. Spoiler isn't close to as cool as Cassandra Cain. And she should never have been batgirl I don't see why people don't like Stephanie? Why isn't she as cool as Cassie? I mean I understand it's all opinion but I would like to know why so many people don't like Stephanie.
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Post by Crom-Cruach on Dec 12, 2010 19:43:09 GMT -5
I don't see why people don't like Stephanie? Why isn't she as cool as Cassie? I mean I understand it's all opinion but I would like to know why so many people don't like Stephanie. It's not that I don't like Stephanie. She's an O.K character, good idea that was mostly used well in stories (thought not all the time). It's just that Cassandra Cain was just a better idea and better written and deeper in my opinion. When she was introduced in No Man's land where she couldn't speak anything except barely a few words with a struggle. She was already cool. How they revealed she was David Cain's daughter and raised to be nothing more then a killing machine. The hurt and broken inside. Like when she tackled Cain off the roof, just murmuring "stop!" while they showed flashbacks. And then as the relationship developed and how she basically worshiped Batman at first but it developed into a parental relationship. It was cool. Plus she had the added awesome of being a total badass. Spoiler, just not as well written, thought out or deep. Plus how she has been treated by DC is abhorrent and only makes her now being batgirl a lot more nonsensical.
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Post by jakefury on Dec 12, 2010 20:12:29 GMT -5
I like Kathy Kane...
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Killshot Caine
The Unstoppable Ledgernaut
You Just Mad Cuz i'm Stylin On you!
Posts: 5,732
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Post by Killshot Caine on Dec 12, 2010 20:14:34 GMT -5
Really? What are the odds?
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Post by jakefury on Dec 12, 2010 20:20:31 GMT -5
Really? What are the odds? LOL. I don't know much about Stephanie and KK is the only Bat-Female I'm remotely up to snuff on.
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Post by Erik-El on Dec 17, 2010 17:12:20 GMT -5
Technically, she is Batwoman.
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Post by Nighthunter on Dec 22, 2010 15:47:15 GMT -5
Cassandra is awesome, but Stephanie is also really cool. Can't wait for the further reincorporation of Cassandra
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Killshot Caine
The Unstoppable Ledgernaut
You Just Mad Cuz i'm Stylin On you!
Posts: 5,732
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Post by Killshot Caine on Dec 26, 2010 18:44:31 GMT -5
Cassandra is awesome, but Stephanie is also really cool. Can't wait for the further reincorporation of Cassandra I think Cassandra's character is a good concept that is poorly executed.
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Post by Crom-Cruach on Dec 26, 2010 18:54:21 GMT -5
Explain? I find that she's one of the best executed members of the bat family. Unlike a certain obnoxious 12 year old ass hat who's introduction did something terrible to two of the best Batman characters.
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Killshot Caine
The Unstoppable Ledgernaut
You Just Mad Cuz i'm Stylin On you!
Posts: 5,732
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Post by Killshot Caine on Dec 30, 2010 16:18:14 GMT -5
Explain? I find that she's one of the best executed members of the bat family. Unlike a certain obnoxious 12 year old ass hat who's introduction did something terrible to two of the best Batman characters. I like the idea of a girl being trained as an assassin from a young age and Shiva and Cain being her parents and being trained and taken in by Batman as well but her level of understanding and prowess as far as her role as Batgirl aren't backed up by her training. I like Stephanie more because she's more of an underdog.She has more room for growth.I like to watch a character evolve.Cassandra gained to much way too fast.
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Post by Crom-Cruach on Dec 30, 2010 16:27:57 GMT -5
I like the idea of a girl being trained as an assassin from a young age and Shiva and Cain being her parents and being trained and taken in by Batman as well but her level of understanding and prowess as far as her role as Batgirl aren't backed up by her training. What do you mean all she's done since she could walk is learn nothing but combat/assassin skills. Cain even deliberately stunted her social and communication growth to devellop a portion of the human ability that doesn't usually grow to make her more effective. If anything, to me, her abilities make more sense then most martial artists. I like Stephanie more because she's more of an underdog.She has more room for growth.I like to watch a character evolve.Cassandra gained to much way too fast. I've outgrown the lovable underdog. It's trite and overused if you asked me. I like the king stomping the peasant if he's more awesome in the relevant ways. A character doesn't need to be an underdog to have as much space to grow. In my opinion. And Cassandra Cain's growth is more interesting to me, how broken and hurt she is inside and all that. Much more depth then the perky happy go lucky girl with a criminal father who put on a costume because she was mad at him.
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Killshot Caine
The Unstoppable Ledgernaut
You Just Mad Cuz i'm Stylin On you!
Posts: 5,732
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Post by Killshot Caine on Dec 30, 2010 19:21:34 GMT -5
I like the idea of a girl being trained as an assassin from a young age and Shiva and Cain being her parents and being trained and taken in by Batman as well but her level of understanding and prowess as far as her role as Batgirl aren't backed up by her training. What do you mean all she's done since she could walk is learn nothing but combat/assassin skills. Cain even deliberately stunted her social and communication growth to devellop a portion of the human ability that doesn't usually grow to make her more effective. If anything, to me, her abilities make more sense then most martial artists. I like Stephanie more because she's more of an underdog.She has more room for growth.I like to watch a character evolve.Cassandra gained to much way too fast. I've outgrown the lovable underdog. It's trite and overused if you asked me. I like the king stomping the peasant if he's more awesome in the relevant ways. A character doesn't need to be an underdog to have as much space to grow. In my opinion. And Cassandra Cain's growth is more interesting to me, how broken and hurt she is inside and all that. Much more depth then the perky happy go lucky girl with a criminal father who put on a costume because she was mad at him. There is no room for Cassandra's advancement which is probably why she's not around anymore.Her goal was to get Shiva and she executed it...and we all knew it would happen The underdog thing is overused but it's the only logical path for advancement, when you make a street leveler too good you only have two options.Either you put them in limbo (somewhere we know they are but they won't leave),or you depower\retcon them. Stephanie's background isn't all rainbows and sunshine.She had a miscarriage,she at one point was stripped over her cowl (as Spoiler) because she was clumsy and untrustworthy.She's had trials.It was a tough leap from Spoiler to Batgirl.
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Post by Lord Barbatos on Dec 31, 2010 3:48:17 GMT -5
Explain? I find that she's one of the best executed members of the bat family. Unlike a certain obnoxious 12 year old ass hat who's introduction did something terrible to two of the best Batman characters. Yeah cass is a great character all right so great that they dont even know what to do with her ,damian is cassandra and jason perfected. He isnt an unbeatable assasin who then became a jobber (even gambler has admitted that aside from her first solo she hasnt done anything impressive) and unlike jason he has actually shown some emotion from time to time.
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Post by Crom-Cruach on Dec 31, 2010 15:21:35 GMT -5
Yeah cass is a great character all right so great that they dont even know what to do with her ,damian is cassandra and jason perfected. He isnt an unbeatable assasin who then became a jobber (even gambler has admitted that aside from her first solo she hasnt done anything impressive) and unlike jason he has actually shown some emotion from time to time. Yeah no. Damian is one of the worst things that ever happened into the Batman series. He is a terrible and annoying character who's introduction did something abhorrent to two of the most interesting Batman characters ever written. Damian could get run over by a truck and the DC universe would be better for it. @vance: I disagree. Cassandra Cain has plenty of advancement possibilities. She disappeared just when she was getting somewhere, finally coming over all the hurt she had inside. Spoiler, miscarriage and all that. Been there, seen that. Not impressed. Personality wise she's still not anything really interesting to me. As to her working to become batgirl she only really became batgirl because Bruce told Cassie to give her the mantle and frankly everything in her storyline carrying that underdog vibe along with a personality I've seen time and again in other characters really makes her a lot less interesting then Cassandra Cain.
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Killshot Caine
The Unstoppable Ledgernaut
You Just Mad Cuz i'm Stylin On you!
Posts: 5,732
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Post by Killshot Caine on Dec 31, 2010 18:48:08 GMT -5
Yeah cass is a great character all right so great that they dont even know what to do with her ,damian is cassandra and jason perfected. He isnt an unbeatable assasin who then became a jobber (even gambler has admitted that aside from her first solo she hasnt done anything impressive) and unlike jason he has actually shown some emotion from time to time. Yeah no. Damian is one of the worst things that ever happened into the Batman series. He is a terrible and annoying character who's introduction did something abhorrent to two of the most interesting Batman characters ever written. Damian could get run over by a truck and the DC universe would be better for it. @vance: I disagree. Cassandra Cain has plenty of advancement possibilities. She disappeared just when she was getting somewhere, finally coming over all the hurt she had inside. Spoiler, miscarriage and all that. Been there, seen that. Not impressed. Personality wise she's still not anything really interesting to me. As to her working to become batgirl she only really became batgirl because Bruce told Cassie to give her the mantle and frankly everything in her storyline carrying that underdog vibe along with a personality I've seen time and again in other characters really makes her a lot less interesting then Cassandra Cain. You say these things as if Cassandra Cain's story is 100% original? You've been there and done that with Miscarriages? How many female heroes have been through that? None that I can think of.The only character I can think of having to go through that is Agent XIII\Sharon Carter and she's not really a hero. I never said that Stephanie "worked" to become Batgirl.I said she had alot of growing to do before reaching that point.Bats would have never asked Cassandra to give her the mantle if he thought she wouldn't be a good Batgirl.
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