Decoy Elite
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Post by Decoy Elite on Oct 23, 2010 7:37:45 GMT -5
When I say smoke bombs I mean bombs that produce smoke, no tear gas guys.
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Post by Crom-Cruach on Oct 23, 2010 7:40:50 GMT -5
Eh, even if you go with the basic bombs Bruce uses to disapear. He should take the majority. He's stealthier and cheap shots are not at all something he ever regrets using. Even that normal smoke can be used offensively to cause coughing or temporarily disorient Cap
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spidey_17
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Post by spidey_17 on Oct 23, 2010 7:41:35 GMT -5
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Post by Crom-Cruach on Oct 23, 2010 7:43:46 GMT -5
You're talking about a man who's taken multiple blows from Bane and gotten up. Killer Croc too. He's been wacked by giant carnivorous plants.
And that helicopter thing proves nothing. He hit the gas tank made a spark and it exploded. No correlation whatsoever to this battle.
As to him hurting Hulk. Please, that's PIS if I've ever seen any.
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Silver
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Post by Silver on Oct 23, 2010 7:46:53 GMT -5
Cap hurting Hulk with his shield is PIS. If that were the case, he would one-shot every street level opponent he nails with it. As for him taking down helicopters, BatMan took down a helicopter with a bloody knife.
As Crom mentioned, BatMan is much stealthier. He has literally disappeared from sight right in front of people numerous times. He has done this to Deadshot (as well as several other villains nearby); Lex and Mercy; four or five cops; a policeman who was pointing his gun right at BatMan only a few feet away, only for BatMan to reappear behind him; Azrael; the entire JLA while in another room; etc.
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Silver
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The Fourth Precept
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Post by Silver on Oct 23, 2010 7:48:47 GMT -5
You're talking about a man who's taken multiple blows from Bane and gotten up. Killer Croc too. He's been wacked by giant carnivorous plants. To add to what you were saying, Bane has thrown him through a brick wall. |
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spidey_17
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Post by spidey_17 on Oct 23, 2010 7:50:00 GMT -5
You're talking about a man who's taken multiple blows from Bane and gotten up. Killer Croc too. He's been wacked by giant carnivorous plants. And that helicopter thing proves nothing. He hit the gas tank made a spark and it exploded. No correlation whatsoever to this battle. As to him hurting Hulk. Please, that's PIS if I've ever seen any. I'm talking about a man who just does not have super human durability and he has been hurt by normal humans more than once. He has also been hurt by an off Venom Bane. Why hurting Hulk with the shield is PIS? His shield might be as hard as adamantium and it has been used by a skilled person that knows how to land well placed hits and also has enhanced strength( something above peak ). It makes sense. And the fact that cap won't one shot batman is because it's nor in cap's character. But after very few blows, Bruce will go down.  |
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Post by Crom-Cruach on Oct 23, 2010 7:50:12 GMT -5
Honestly Cap is an awesome fighter. But his fighting style isn't at all suited for a fight against Bruce in a city.
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spidey_17
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Post by spidey_17 on Oct 23, 2010 7:52:14 GMT -5
I don't understand how the city matters here.
=]
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Silver
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Post by Silver on Oct 23, 2010 7:53:13 GMT -5
Why hurting Hulk with the shield is PIS? His shield might be as hard as adamantium and it has been used by a skilled person that knows how to land well placed hits and also has enhanced strength( something above peak ). It makes sense. It really does not make sense. It makes no difference whether or not Cap is enhanced or if he knows where to strike. Hulk is too durable for that, period. If Steve were physically superhuman to a fairly high degree, then I could believe that. Hulk has taken blows from superhumans above SpiderMan's strength level without much damage. For him to manage that the way he did is PIS. |
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Decoy Elite
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Post by Decoy Elite on Oct 23, 2010 7:55:08 GMT -5
Honestly Cap is an awesome fighter. But his fighting style isn't at all suited for a fight against Bruce in a city. I picked Detroit as Bruce doesn't know it as well as somewhere like say, Gotham. Anyway, I don't see how being in a city gives Bats any kind of edge really, Cap fights in cities all the time as well. I guess you could argue that Bruce can utilize his stealth in a city, but he could do so anywhere else as well. |
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spidey_17
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Post by spidey_17 on Oct 23, 2010 7:58:01 GMT -5
Why hurting Hulk with the shield is PIS? His shield might be as hard as adamantium and it has been used by a skilled person that knows how to land well placed hits and also has enhanced strength( something above peak ). It makes sense. It really does not make sense. It makes no difference whether or not Cap is enhanced or if he knows where to strike. Hulk is too durable for that, period. If Steve were physically superhuman to a fairly high degree, then I could believe that. Hulk has taken blows from superhumans above SpiderMan's strength level without much damage. For him to manage that the way he did is PIS. Actually cap enhanced or super human strength. He can lift 800 lbs and according to Marvel's strength ratings, this is super human. Also if you have the skill to land a hit with a powerful weapon, similar to adamantium, on the perfect place and if your strength is super human or close to it, then even Hulk's durability is not enough to withstand it. |
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Silver
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Post by Silver on Oct 23, 2010 8:07:06 GMT -5
It really does not make sense. It makes no difference whether or not Cap is enhanced or if he knows where to strike. Hulk is too durable for that, period. If Steve were physically superhuman to a fairly high degree, then I could believe that. Hulk has taken blows from superhumans above SpiderMan's strength level without much damage. For him to manage that the way he did is PIS. Actually cap enhanced or super human strength. He can lift 800 lbs and according to Marvel's strength ratings, this is super human. Also if you have the skill to land a hit with a powerful weapon, similar to adamantium, on the perfect place and if your strength is super human or close to it, then even Hulk's durability is not enough to withstand it. The hardness of the object is irrelevant. If a two year old hit a door with a rock and then with a plastic swiss army man, what difference would it make? Unless you are a man of decent size and weight and are capable of hitting a door with enough force to knock it down or break through it (depending on what it is made of), the hardness, malleability, ductility, density, etc. of the object in question that is actually hitting the door makes no difference. If the door is too sturdy for a two year old to break down, hitting it with a marshmallow and hitting it with a rock are, for all intents and purposes, the same. That scenario applies to this as Hulk should be too durable for Cap to damage regardless of what he strikes him with. Now on his strength, Cap is not superhuman. By Marvel's standards, being able to lift 800 lbs. puts you at the peak human mark. Steve is enhanced. That said, Hulk has withstood blows from far stronger opponents. The idea that Steve could harm him does not match with Hulk's consistent showings. |
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Post by Crom-Cruach on Oct 23, 2010 8:21:44 GMT -5
I don't understand how the city matters here. =] Because Batman's the superior stealth and he excels at ambushes and urban guerrilla fighting. A city is his home ground. He'll vanish and Steve will never find him until it's far too late. And Steve hurting hulk with the shield is PIS. Normal Hulk shrugs off blows from the Thing with little effort. Cap shouldn't hurt him. And Bruce has taken blow from stronger people then Cap. |
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spidey_17
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Post by spidey_17 on Oct 23, 2010 8:22:14 GMT -5
Actually cap enhanced or super human strength. He can lift 800 lbs and according to Marvel's strength ratings, this is super human. Also if you have the skill to land a hit with a powerful weapon, similar to adamantium, on the perfect place and if your strength is super human or close to it, then even Hulk's durability is not enough to withstand it. The hardness of the object is irrelevant. If a two year old hit a door with a rock and then with a plastic swiss army man, what difference would it make? Unless you are a man of decent size and weight and are capable of hitting a door with enough force to knock it down or break through it (depending on what it is made of), the hardness, malleability, ductility, density, etc. of the object in question that is actually hitting the door makes no difference. If the door is too sturdy for a two year old to break down, hitting it with a marshmallow and hitting it with a rock are, for all intents and purposes, the same. That scenario applies to this as Hulk should be too durable for Cap to damage regardless of what he strikes him with. Now on his strength, Cap is not superhuman. By Marvel's standards, being able to lift 800 lbs. puts you at the peak human mark. Steve is enhanced. That said, Hulk has withstood blows from far stronger opponents. The idea that Steve could harm him does not match with Hulk's consistent showings. Check the link. You will notice that cap is superhuman www.comicvine.com/myvine/spidey_15/all-images/108-352090/1357216_strength/105-1385583/Also, you example does not matter here. A door does not have weak spots. Hulk has. Cap has the strength and skill to use his shield perfectly. He was able to throw it and tag and destroy a missle that was already fired www.comicvine.com/myvine/spidey_15/cap/108-406425/640294_captainamericav302709vk0_super/105-1393523/This is an amazing strength feat. Also, if you count that his shield is as hard as adamantium and cap has land this weapon on the perfects places, then it does make sense. |
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spidey_17
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Post by spidey_17 on Oct 23, 2010 8:29:00 GMT -5
I don't understand how the city matters here. =] Because Batman's the superior stealth and he excels at ambushes and urban guerrilla fighting. A city is his home ground. He'll vanish and Steve will never find him until it's far too late. And Steve hurting hulk with the shield is PIS. Normal Hulk shrugs off blows from the Thing with little effort. Cap shouldn't hurt him. And Bruce has taken blow from stronger people then Cap. Bruce does not move faster than a bullet right? Cap's reflexes allow him to dodge bullets because he sees faster. I can't imagine how Bruce will move fast enough to suddenly disappear in front of cap. And who said that Thing did not hurt Hulk when he punched him. There is not different. Cap is superhuman and his shield is as hard as adamantium and his skills allows him to land well placed hits that are followed with by his strength. Bruce has been hurt by peak humans. The only thing that prevents cap from one shotting him, it's his character. |
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Silver
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Post by Silver on Oct 23, 2010 8:29:33 GMT -5
The hardness of the object is irrelevant. If a two year old hit a door with a rock and then with a plastic swiss army man, what difference would it make? Unless you are a man of decent size and weight and are capable of hitting a door with enough force to knock it down or break through it (depending on what it is made of), the hardness, malleability, ductility, density, etc. of the object in question that is actually hitting the door makes no difference. If the door is too sturdy for a two year old to break down, hitting it with a marshmallow and hitting it with a rock are, for all intents and purposes, the same. That scenario applies to this as Hulk should be too durable for Cap to damage regardless of what he strikes him with. Now on his strength, Cap is not superhuman. By Marvel's standards, being able to lift 800 lbs. puts you at the peak human mark. Steve is enhanced. That said, Hulk has withstood blows from far stronger opponents. The idea that Steve could harm him does not match with Hulk's consistent showings. Check the link. You will notice that cap is superhuman www.comicvine.com/myvine/spidey_15/all-images/108-352090/1357216_strength/105-1385583/Also, you example does not matter here. A door does not have weak spots. Hulk has. Cap has the strength and skill to use his shield perfectly. He was able to throw it and tag and destroy a missle that was already fired www.comicvine.com/myvine/spidey_15/cap/108-406425/640294_captainamericav302709vk0_super/105-1393523/This is an amazing strength feat. Also, if you count that his shield is as hard as adamantium and cap has land this weapon on the perfects places, then it does make sense. I have no idea where that came from, but in every entry I have seen, 800 lb. lift is peak human. Steve is enhanced, not superhuman. I have seen the missile feat before, but he never destroyed the missile. He broke the restraints on the missile's nose. Not that it really matters. BatMan has done numerous feats that are well beyond peak human also. He once tore a metallic shaft apart that he was tied to in a position where he had no leverage. Honestly, Steve hurting Hulk with his shield is about as legitimate as BatMan hurting Darkseid or Spectre. Hulk regularly withstands blows from stronger opponents. It is not consistent for Steve to harm him. Besides, how would Steve even know Hulk's physical anatomy? Who is to say that striking points in Hulk's body are the same as they are in human bodies? Again, if Steve could legitimately manage that, he would one-shot every street level opponent he fights. Such is not the case. |
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Silver
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Post by Silver on Oct 23, 2010 8:36:14 GMT -5
Bruce does not move faster than a bullet right? Cap's reflexes allow him to dodge bullets because he sees faster. I can't imagine how Bruce will move fast enough to suddenly disappear in front of cap. And who said that Thing did not hurt Hulk when he punched him. There is not different. Cap is superhuman and his shield is as hard as adamantium and his skills allows him to land well placed hits that are followed with by his strength. Bruce has been hurt by peak humans. The only thing that prevents cap from one shotting him, it's his character. No offense, Spidey, but quite a bit of this post is wrong. 1. BatMan dodges bullets also. He has caught arrows, deflected bullets, even blocked bullets with his cape. So what? 2. BatMan has vanished in front of superhumans with much better senses than Steve's before. He disappeared in front Azrael, who has super senses; Lex Luthor and Mercy while both were only a couple feet away from him; four or five cops; a policeman pointing his gun straight at BatMan only a few feet away and then reappearing behind the same policeman; escaped a building before Jay Garrick could search the entire complex and find no trace of him; disappeared in front of Deadshot and several other supervillains; disappeared right under the entire JLA's noses, which included SuperMan and the Martian; etc. Fact is, stealth and disappearance are his modus operandi. He can disappear around Steve, especially given the smoke bombs. 3. Thing hurting Hulk is not the point. If Steve were able to hurt Hulk, Thing should one-shot him. Thor should have one-shotted him also. SpiderMan should have done much more harm to Hulk as well. 4. Steve is not superhuman. 5. Steve has been hurt by peak humans as well. But that does not detract from the fact that both have taken blows from superhumans. |
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spidey_17
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Post by spidey_17 on Oct 23, 2010 8:39:41 GMT -5
I have no idea where that came from, but in every entry I have seen, 800 lb. lift is peak human. Steve is enhanced, not superhuman. I have seen the missile feat before, but he never destroyed the missile. He broke the restraints on the missile's nose. Not that it really matters. BatMan has done numerous feats that are well beyond peak human also. He once tore a metallic shaft apart that he was tied to in a position where he had no leverage. Honestly, Steve hurting Hulk with his shield is about as legitimate as BatMan hurting Darkseid or Spectre. Hulk regularly withstands blows from stronger opponents. It is not consistent for Steve to harm him. Besides, how would Steve even know Hulk's physical anatomy? Who is to say that striking points in Hulk's body are the same as they are in human bodies? Again, if Steve could legitimately manage that, he would one-shot every street level opponent he fights. Such is not the case. I got the scan from Morph. I guess the ones that you saw are outdated...lol My point with that scan was that cap's strength allowed him to throw the shield, to reach a missile that was already fired and destroy a small part of it. That obviously needs amazing strength and skill in order to be accomplished. I don't see how Bat's strength is relevant here. We are just debating how Cap will put Bruce down with a few shield dashes. Again i don't see how it's PIS. Hulk has withstood hits from stronger people in the same way he withstood the shield dash. My point is that he withstood those hits, but that does not mean he was not hurt at all. Same here. He withstood the shield dash, he was not KOed, but he was hurt by that. I don't see how Hulk's anatomy should be any different from a normal human. I never seen anyone stating that. |
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Silver
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Post by Silver on Oct 23, 2010 8:47:27 GMT -5
I have no idea where that came from, but in every entry I have seen, 800 lb. lift is peak human. Steve is enhanced, not superhuman. I have seen the missile feat before, but he never destroyed the missile. He broke the restraints on the missile's nose. Not that it really matters. BatMan has done numerous feats that are well beyond peak human also. He once tore a metallic shaft apart that he was tied to in a position where he had no leverage. Honestly, Steve hurting Hulk with his shield is about as legitimate as BatMan hurting Darkseid or Spectre. Hulk regularly withstands blows from stronger opponents. It is not consistent for Steve to harm him. Besides, how would Steve even know Hulk's physical anatomy? Who is to say that striking points in Hulk's body are the same as they are in human bodies? Again, if Steve could legitimately manage that, he would one-shot every street level opponent he fights. Such is not the case. I got the scan from Morph. I guess the ones that you saw are outdated...lol My point with that scan was that cap's strength allowed him to throw the shield, to reach a missile that was already fired and destroy a small part of it. That obviously needs amazing strength and skill in order to be accomplished. I don't see how Bat's strength is relevant here. We are just debating how Cap will put Bruce down with a few shield dashes. Again i don't see how it's PIS. Hulk has withstood hits from stronger people in the same way he withstood the shield dash. My point is that he withstood those hits, but that does not mean he was not hurt at all. Same here. He withstood the shield dash, he was not KOed, but he was hurt by that. I don't see how Hulk's anatomy should be any different from a normal human. I never seen anyone stating that. I only brought up a strength feat for BatMan because a feat for Cap was shown. I really have no idea how that is relevant either. It proves nothing I did not already know. BatMan supporting massive building rubble after it collapsed requires incredible strength also. I am not seeing the point in mentioning those. It is PIS because stronger characters than Steve have failed to hurt Hulk. Again, several characters should have one-shotted Hulk if Steve could pull that off. If that showing was legitimate, then I could say that BatMan could one-shot Cap because he has hurt a Darkseid avatar twice, if I remember correctly. It makes no sense. Hulk's anatomy in general is different. How many people do you know that are 10 feet tall, green, and have a few thousands pounds of muscle? Sorry to be sarcastic, but his build as a whole is different from a normal human's body. |
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