Wolverine #7

[Lance]

Written by Jason Aaron
Art by Daniel Acuña
Edited by Jeanine Schaefer (Ha)

The Plot - While Wolverine faces off with his inner demons (literally), the head honcho roaming around on the outside is in this fight of his life with the X-Mens top brass - sort of. Magneto, Namor, Scott, Emma, and a host of some of your favorite and some of the more over saturated X-Men. Will the X-Men be victorious? Or will the monsters in Wolverine's head put a stop to the infamous Canadian?

The Good - It's a comic book. So that's good, right? Jae Lee's cover was pretty boss too. Acuña's art was good, but I'm not sure anything could redeem this abomination

The Bad - If you like Namor, or Magneto, or Wolverine, or common sense in general, seriously, don't even bother with it. If you've read the book, maybe you can understand why, but seriously, Magneto, Namor, Cyclops, they all kind of take a dive. Very similar to the dives Johnny Blaze, Dan Ketch, and Damion Hellstorm of all people took. And the cavalry? I'll try not to spoil the issue, but when the biggest name on the team is Storm, you know you're in for some terrible writing. And Emma suddenley being able to magically pop in to Logans mind despite, y'know, failing horribly the last few times she attempted the feat... oh, and the cameo(s) at the end of the book. I'm not even sure if his editors are reading the book. I think Aaron's finally realized he can just do whatever he wants and no one will even bat an eyelash. I ignored it in Wolverine Goes to Hell, because at the time, it looked like the story was going to hold some merit. But this is ridiculous.

Rating - 1/5. I'd rate it lower, but at least the cover will look cool in my collection. That's about it. Can someone tell me when this series picks up, or when Aarons leaves, because I don't intend to grab this anymore.

[Morpheus]

Aaron really dropped the ball with this storyarc. Even the initial premise when the solicitations were announced (Wolverine vs the X-Men) was ill conceived. To make matters worse, when this is over, we'll have gone through about 8-9 months worth of stories in which Hellverine beats up a bunch of X-Men while the real Wolverine tries to fight off his inner demons, and literally nothing else. It simply grew old.

[Erik-El]

While I admit that the story arc is not great, it has not been terrible.

Magneto, Namor and Cyclops all failed for different reasons, none of which were unbelievable considering it was a demon, not Wolverine.

Storm is keeping her distance and keeping the demon disorientated, which is probably only a possibility because the demon is busy burning away Wolverine's soul.

The Emma getting in his head with her team of gal pals.... well that one is not an easy sell but I just say that Wolverine's fight with the demon was weakening it, even though he was losing.

As for the cameo, why not? Wolverine has gotten a visit from every other dead person in his life short of Silver Fox, Jean and this cameo.

You mentioned in another thread that you took issue with one of the rooms in Wolverine's brain as well. I do not think that the room has any literal power borrowed from the implied source. I think it is Wolverine's most cherished memory of a person.

[Erik-El]

I have panned some really terrible issues lately. This is not one of them. Mediocre yes, but not terrible.

[Morpheus]

I haven't read the issue so I can't comment on its quality in particular, yet it is the premise that feels contrived, therefore unappealing to me, not necessarily its execution.

[Erik-El]

Apr 1, 2011 10:11:08 GMT -5 Morpheus said:

I haven't read the issue so I can't comment on its quality in particular, yet it is the premise that feels contrived, therefore unappealing to me, not necessarily its execution.

Oh it most certainly is. But that lends to it being the mediocre read that it is. I would not recommend it to anyone really except hardcore Wolverine fans such as myself. I do not hate it, but I do not think it is good either.

[Lance]

Apr 1, 2011 10:01:07 GMT -5 Erik-El said:

While I admit that the story arc is not great, it has not been terrible.

Magneto, Namor and Cyclops all failed for different reasons, none of which were unbelievable considering it was a demon, not Wolverine.

Storm is keeping her distance and keeping the demon disorientated, which is probably only a possibility because the demon is busy burning away Wolverine's soul.

The Emma getting in his head with her team of gal pals.... well that one is not an easy sell but I just say that Wolverine's fight with the demon was weakening it, even though he was losing.

As for the cameo, why not? Wolverine has gotten a visit from every other dead person in his life short of Silver Fox, Jean and this cameo.

You mentioned in another thread that you took issue with one of the rooms in Wolverine's brain as well. I do not think that the room has any literal power borrowed from the implied source. I think it is Wolverine's most cherished memory of a person.

I found it ridiculous that even as a demon, the fact that Magneto did nothing whilst his helmet was removed is completely out of character. And the ease with which it probed his mind is equally ludicrous. If it's strong enough to break through all of Magneto's psychic defenses but weak enough for Emma to even have a hope of breaching it, it reeks of inconsistency. As for Namor, even as demon Wolverine, the loss was embarrassing. Cyke I'm willing to cede over, considering he was trying tactics that generally worked on less powerful beings. It clearly has some resistance to conventional methods, but still, the ease with which it accomplished all of this, after fighting two high level ghost riders and something that succeeded in exercising Dormammu from a person... it all mounts to a rather ridiculous (not unexpected, but ridiculous) conclusion.

Sure, even if we assume it's busy taking out Wolverines consciousness and soul, it's been doing so for several issues and didn't have a problem with multiple targets or with tactics that would generally disorient any other target. It seems like a cheap cop out in order for Emma and the brigade to infiltrate.

The problem is that the cameo is ill explained. Is he dead, is he a memory, is he some kind of last ditch plan, is he some kind of psychic apparition? Sure, it's nice to see him, as he was a decent influence in Wolverine's life as an X-Man and the level head on the team in general, but really? Even Puck made sense.

I pray it is just a memory, but there's something about the last line in the book that has me overly worried that it isn't.

[Erik-El]

Magneto did not do "nothing", he was busy being chocked to death. We are also dealing with divine power. Psychic defenses do not necessarily mean a whole lot there. Besides, Emma did not breach the demon. Even trying that nearly killed her. What she did was breach Logan.

Namor lost because he was burned alive. Namor is not immune from temperature extremes.

It beat Cyclops by raping his mind as well, just like Magneto.

It never had an issue with it before because Wolverine was running from it the entire time. He made the stand in his mental fortress.

The cameo is not explained because it is a cliffhanger for the next issue.

The last line is not nearly as important as the direction post on the previous page that pointed said cameo right to the door.

[Lance]

The only thing that seemed to be remotely choking his was the creepy tentacles. Even when being telekinetically choked not a few pages before, he was able to summon offense. Instead, he sat around like a scared child. Emma had been trying to breach Logan in issue six to no success.

Namor being effected by temperature extremes after spending life in the ocean, a place with not only incredibly cold temperatures, but active volcanoes under it's surface? When would he not have come in to contact with boiling hot water before?

Wolverine hadn't been running the entire time. The battle had begun in the field before he'd even made it to the mental fortress. The next issue starts with him running, sure. but it's not as though he hadn't been fighting before hand.

Ending on a cliffhanger doesn't really mean they can't explain why the hell he's there. It's not as though it would have detracted from the issue for some quick note about it.

As I said, I hope you're right about the memory. I'm just less then optimistic.

[Erik-El]

The demon did not choke Magneto with tentacles. The demon force choked Magneto and used the tentacles to pry the helmet off Magneto. You would be surprised how fast a person can lose the ability to fight back with pressure on the neck.

Emma tried getting in the demon's head in issue 6. She was in Logan's head without trouble but the second she tried to get in the demon's head, she got hit hard. Furthermore, the demon had just barely attacked Wolverine right when it happened.

So.... Just because Namor has volcanoes underwater, he must spend time in them? Well we have volcanoes on the surface, why are we not spending time bathing in molten? I said not immune to temperature extremes and maybe that was an overstatement. He clearly weathers the cold of the deepest ocean without trouble. But that says nothing of heat. In fact, I believe there is a Torch/Namor fight that proves my point anyway.

No. The battle did not start at all until the Fortress. The demon attacked Wolverine (who we did not see hit back in issue 6), then we see him at the beginning of issue 7 running for his one last refuge.

Sure it does. It means they can explain it in the next issue. The cameo is clearly an "Ooooo look who is here! Better get the next issue to see why and how." type of scene.

[Lance]

Upon further inspection (because for a moment, I doubted myself here) there's no sign that he was choking Magneto whatsoever at the time of the helmet removal.



It's not like he didn't see it coming, and he apparently had time to cry out "no" during the proceedings. And he's mounted defense faster then that. So once again, it's not like he didn't have time to do something or get away. He just didn't. Because... I have no idea why. It's not in his character. Mind you he had plenty of time to react when he was actually being choked.

Logan and the Demon were inhabiting the same head in issue six. It was right after the initial scene with Scott running the Magneto/Namor scenario, where he tells his girlfriend to run and then the demon takes over again. So saying she was trying to push in to the demons head isn't really correct in either case when she was trying to push in to both. It's not like one time should have been any more effective then the other considering even at the second attempt, the demon was winning in a big way until the cavalry arrived.

The only time I recall Torch and Namor fighting ended up with Namor diving in to the ocean and Torch realizing rather quickly that he didn't want to pursue the fight. There seems to be some recent recollection of a couple of pyros giving him heat stroke. He's spent the better half of the last century in the ocean. No one said he had to be hanging out in volcanoes to have experienced temperature extremes close to that. And even if they were, Demonwolverine is still fighting in the middle of the ocean against someones who's chief power comes from being submerged in water.



Maybe I'm reading too far in to it, but it doesn't look like the battle starts in issue seven. It looks like it starts right there,. The fortress doesn't get there until the next issue, and all we know is that Logan is on the retreat. Just because he made his last stand there doesn't mean the fighting started there. The scans imply that the fighting started in issue six. We see Wolverine lunge. Having to see him hit doesn't mean it didn't happen.

[Erik-El]

@lance:
1) I never said he was being choked at the time of helmet removal. In fact, I believe I was the one who said the tentacles were NOT chocking him as you were saying that they did.

2) Having time to breathe a "No" does not mean you have the energy to fight back. I say again, chocking saps energy out of you in seconds. You have no idea why because you have probably never been chocked out or chocked someone out. I have. 15 seconds max until they pass out and assuming the hold on them is released before unconsciousness, the time it takes for someone to get their bearings again is even longer.

3) They inhabited the same physical tissue. Since when have telepathic powers had anything to do with that?

4) Namor's power comes from being in the water. That water can still be used against him as we have already seen. He has never to my knowledge shown resistance to heat. This water was super heated, likely to the point that the water molecules were dying. If polluted water causes Namor to pull a Captain Planet, then super heating the water would too even if it did not burn him.... Which it did.

5) You are reading it wrong because no fight was even shown. Demon hits Wolverine once in issue 6 (your scan) and Wolverine is NOT shown fighting back and that is all we see in that issue. Then in the next issue, we see Wolverine rabbiting to his fortress, where he intends to fight the demon. He even says that is where he intends to have the fight.

[Lance]

1) You said he was being force choked. And the said "You would be surprised how fast a person can lose the ability to fight back with pressure on the neck." So why would he have lost the ability to fight back in between the time he defended himself while being force choked and the time that he had enough time to legitimately orchestrate some kind of defense?

2) Once again, in between the time he was actually being choked and mounted offense, when would he have suddenly lost the ability entirely? Because it didn't seem like being choked was a massive detriment to his abilities when he was actually being choked and continuing to talk.

3) What? They were inhabiting the same mind. You said she was trying to breach the beast in one issue and then breach Logan in the next, when they were one in the same in both issues.

4) Water being polluted I can see, but even if the water were being rapidly boiled up the point where water molecules were dying, they were still in the middle of the ocean. Wolverine wasn't dumping toxic sludge, he was burning off water in a place where there's still plenty more of it. Namor literally would have had to have been fighting like a retard to not go at some point for some source of non-evaporating water. Which seemed rather plentiful with like, the five foot radius where they surfaced.

5) He's popping his claws like he's about to fight. If the demon knocked him down, how did he possibly escape between that period if he didn't do something to counterattack? If he didn't, wouldn't the demon be continuously pummeling the tar out of Wolverine?

[Erik-El]

1) The answer to your question is answered on the #2 on my previous post.

2) I already explained it to you right in the post you are addressing. Magneto, with all his power had only enough energy to throw shards of a manhole at the possessed Wolverine. He was already damn near done. Talk? I do not understand why you think that a person cannot talk when being chocked. And I just explained that he clearly was sapped of energy through that choke.

3) No. They were inhabiting the same body. The demon was not inhabiting Wolverine's mind, it was attacking it. They are not one and the same. Not at all.

4) In the middle of the ocean where not a drop of non-lethal water was touching Namor. It is not being near water that enhances Namor. It is touching him that does it. But if all the water touching him is harmful, no benefit can come from it. The fight also took place under water. You did not even see the "foot radius" because it was off panel. Also, given the size of the wave created from the fight, I would say it is fair to assume that water was being boiled at more than just a 5 foot radius.

5) I already said how. He ran. The demon was not holding him, it only hit him once.

[Crom-Cruach]

Seeing Cyclops's head literally on a pike fills me with so much joy. I won't buy the comic but I might use photoshop to turn that portion of the drawing into a wallpaper.

[Lance]

2) He's talking while he's being choked. He says so in the panel. Magneto explains everything that's occurring right there on the page.



He clearly isn't being choked hard enough to cause any real damage to him, or even cause him to pass out. So I don't see how him getting choked briefly is going to negate all ability he has to do anything whatsoever.

3) The demon was already inside of Wolverine's mind. He can't be trying to take over what he already had. Wolverine's soul was the only thing stopping him. So once again, how was Emma trying to psychically attack the beast in one instance and then doing it to Logan in another when it was the same set of circumstances.

4) Even in the book, there was clearly enough water around Namor for him to have gained energy from it. I can make scans of that as well, but even given the size of the wave, from the art, water was readily available to him from any direction. Seeing the radius of the battle still doesn't matter because even when he's defeated, he's shown coming up through the water. No boiling, no evaporating, the water was right there.

5) And apparently the demon let Wolverine get back up. That doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

[Erik-El]

1) I already explained to you that people can still talk while being choked in most cases. Again, you do not see how because you are not using first hand knowledge. I am sorry to say that you are debating about something you do not know about, no offense.

2) What are you talking about? Emma was not attacking Wolverine. I do not know why I have to explain myself over and over again on the same points. I already said that Emma was in Wolverine's mind. She was able to get in his mind both times she tried with minimal effort. When it was indicated that she was making a go at the demon, is when she got hammered.

3) Post all the scans you want because it will not prove anything at all. The demon super heated all the water around Namor. That is the facts. You do not see anything else once we see Namor put wolverine in the water. No fight, no struggle, no nothing. It happens off panel. Lol when he is coming up from the water, Namor is unconscious. The demon also clearly stopped boiling the water when the fight was over. Hard to see boiling water where there is none.

4) How do you know it let him get back up? It never showed anything. It is obvious through logical thinking that Wolverine got hit and ran. Especially when he said his fight was going to be elsewhere.

[Lance]

1) I've been choked. Not in an aggressive manner (or not in a manner that anyone would consider aggressive in context, though it was rather vigorous) and it wasn't as though I was physically incapable of doing anything about it. Once again, he wasn't choked for any prolonged period of time. Saying I don't have first hand experience isn't a basis for lack of evidence. He was choked for all of two panels in a conversation that couldn't have lasted more then a few seconds before he retaliated.

2) I'm not sure what you're getting at when all she said that the demonic presence was overwhelming. There's no indication that she was doing anything other then looking in to Wolverine's mind. There's nothing that should make one attempt any less successful then the other. "all they did was look at me." She didn't try to go for anything, she didn't try to attack it. She didn't even have time. So... not sure where you're going with this.

3) Hard to see boiling water when we can't see the fight either. So you can't say it was boiling all of the water in any kind of extended vicinity that Namor couldn't have reached a better source. I'm not sure what's not clear about that.

4) He got hit, and ran, when the demon had an advantage and could clearly strike him. Right. Because logically, if it was quick enough to strike him the first time without him being to react after he popped his claws, then it wouldn't blatantly let him run away.

[Erik-El]

1) Vigorous? Keep what is in your closet waaaay in your closet please. Jk. But getting back to the discussion, a few seconds is all that is needed when you are choking correctly. Most people do not know how or where to choke to pull this off.

2) Looking into his mind and then getting an attack from the demon.

3) It does not matter where the water was boiling as long as it was surrounding Namor. That is all that is important.

4) There is zero indication that the demon had the direct advantage over Wolverine other than being vastly more powerful. It had no hold on him at all. Wolverine got hit and hoofed it. So..... You are saying reaction time and running speed are suddenly the same thing now?

[Lance]

1) For some reason, I'm just dubious over the length of time. Considering Magneto is known to fight through situations other people shouldn't be able to go through, a few seconds of choking (light, heavy, I really don't know how hard he was being choked) doesn't seem like that big of a problem. If it had been for a more extended period of time, perhaps I could see the argument, but everything that happened afterwards (even cowering at the "Nazi's" feet) rings false to the general persona of the character.

2) That's my point. The first time it looked at her and repelled her without even batting an eyelash. Nothing really changed.

3) And once again, he'd have to be fighting like an idiot to just stay there while the demon was boiling water. It's not like he isn't fast enough under water to do so. He just kept going downwards and took it, despite seeing what had happened to Magneto and everyone else that had fought the demon before him. He's arrogant, sure, but he's not known for taking intentional dives.

4) Being vastly more powerful seems like a rather large advantage. Reaction time and running speed are unrelated entirely, though if Wolverine's reaction time wasn't fast enough to avoid the initial blow, there's no reason why the demon still wouldn't have continued the attack. And considering that his claws weren't out by the time he was running in the next issue, it's more likely that something occurred to make him realize that fighting at that point was useless entirely. He was ready to fight it in issue six and was suddenly on foot and booking it in issue seven.