Vance Astro
The Unstoppable Ledgernaut
You Just Mad Cuz i'm Stylin On you!
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Post by Vance Astro on Dec 30, 2010 15:23:07 GMT -5
He could use his powers freely without consequence.Captain America said "Even though they are both holding back they each wield enough energy to shred worlds" what Steve says does not make it so. Luthor can say he is invincible, it doesn't make it so. This is the same thing has this been actually seen or is this another character talking without us seeing any proof of it. Also his strength comes from SOLAR energy absorption initially.He does that involuntarily.The more mentally stable he is the more sunlight he absorbs making him stronger.Which is why he was more powerful in his miniseries before he knew what the Void was. Source of power is not as important as feats seen. Steve didn't have to say anything.It's the reason for them being transported to the microverse. That very issue shows Sentry absorbing energy...they were in the middle of nowhere..there were no "direct" energy sources present. Source of power is as important as feats seen.If I told you someone got there powers from Galactus..you would know they were powerful because ALL Heralds are.Difference is Sentry has no stated limit.His feats are obviously going to be lower because he's been depowered for years now plus he holds back because he doesn't want to hurt people. |
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Post by Crom-Cruach on Dec 30, 2010 15:32:08 GMT -5
Source of power is as important as feats seen Not at all. If I said I am a sorcerer. That can mean I can barely cast a small fire as I can mean I can rewrite reality. That a character has no stated limits is also irrelevant. Unless we see what they can do. We can't actually believe they are more then they've shown. Because that's just going into wishful or fanciful thinking. Until Sentry actually shows off that alledged infinite power, we can't believe he has it. |
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Silver
The Unstoppable Ledgernaut
The Fourth Precept
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Post by Silver on Dec 30, 2010 15:39:23 GMT -5
Not all heralds are very impressive.
(Do I have to mention Terrax?)
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Vance Astro
The Unstoppable Ledgernaut
You Just Mad Cuz i'm Stylin On you!
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Post by Vance Astro on Dec 30, 2010 15:40:18 GMT -5
Source of power is as important as feats seen Not at all. If I said I am a sorcerer. That can mean I can barely cast a small fire as I can mean I can rewrite reality. That a character has no stated limits is also irrelevant. Unless we see what they can do. We can't actually believe they are more then they've shown. Because that's just going into wishful or fanciful thinking. Until Sentry actually shows off that alledged infinite power, we can't believe he has it. No it's not irrelevant.A stable Sentry can increase his ability at will.That's not speculation.He's done it.Nobody can show you unlimited power.Sentry has produced a fraction of that. |
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Vance Astro
The Unstoppable Ledgernaut
You Just Mad Cuz i'm Stylin On you!
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Post by Vance Astro on Dec 30, 2010 15:41:48 GMT -5
Not all heralds are very impressive. (Do I have to mention Terrax?) No they aren't but they are all powerful beings.Terrax couldn't beat Sentry but he'd wipe the floor with alot of Earth heroes.He's easily a planet buster. |
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Post by Crom-Cruach on Dec 30, 2010 15:50:01 GMT -5
No it's not irrelevant.A stable Sentry can increase his ability at will.That's not speculation.He's done it. Rational and scientific observation dictates that you cannot believe something until you see it. That he has increased his power does not prove he doesn't have a limit. It just means he can increase his powers beyond normal limits. Just like superman can with sundipping or going into a blue star. You're extrapolating without evidence. Sentry may be able to increase his powers but just because someone says they have no limit or that we haven't seen one doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Feats and observable action, measurable elements and calculable effects are what dictates if something is true or not. |
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Silver
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The Fourth Precept
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Post by Silver on Dec 30, 2010 15:52:08 GMT -5
Not all heralds are very impressive. (Do I have to mention Terrax?) No they aren't but the are all powerful beings.Terrax couldn't beat Sentry but he'd wipe the floor with alot of Earth heroes.He's easily a planet buster. True enough. I agree. But not all of the heralds are Surfer/Morg level. Firelord, Stardust, and Nova are fairly impressive, but they are not the uber powerhouses that people think they are just because Morg and especially Surfer is extremely powerful. Terrax is just a jobber, really. |
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Vance Astro
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Post by Vance Astro on Dec 30, 2010 15:57:53 GMT -5
No it's not irrelevant.A stable Sentry can increase his ability at will.That's not speculation.He's done it. Rational and scientific observation dictates that you cannot believe something until you see it. That he has increased his power does not prove he doesn't have a limit. It just means he can increase his powers beyond normal limits. Just like superman can with sundipping or going into a blue star. You're extrapolating without evidence. Sentry may be able to increase his powers but just because someone says they have no limit or that we haven't seen one doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Feats and observable action, measurable elements and calculable effects are what dictates if something is true or not. The person who created the character says he can do this.We cannot see him increase his strength "infinitely" because it would be impossible to show that.They can only show him absorbing massive amounts to prove the point. This is no different than Slapstick's infinite pocket.If Marvel says he has an infinite number of objects in that pocket..then that's what's in there.They cannot show you an infinite amount of objects.That is scientifically impossible. According to Sentry's abilities he can absorb energy from any and everywhere (which was shown) and the is no limit (which they cannot show).I'm not telling you that he can lift a mountain and not showing him do it.I'm telling you a power he has..that he factually has. |
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Post by Crom-Cruach on Dec 30, 2010 16:00:48 GMT -5
The person who created the characters says he can do this. fair enough. If marvel canonically says he has that power then it is true. |
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Vance Astro
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Post by Vance Astro on Dec 30, 2010 16:12:37 GMT -5
Back to Marvel and DC's power levels though, DC does seem to be more dominant power wise still.Even if you can match up a character with their most powerful you would have to match up the same guy with each one of their powerhouses.Sure Thor may physically be able to match Supergirl,Superman,Wonder Woman,Martian Manhunter,Green Lantern etc. but now compare them to the rest of Marvel's class 100's? They are way stronger in comparison.Iron Man,Hulk,Rulk,Colossus,The Thing,Hercules,Nova..they are considered to be top tier in Marvel.They wouldn't be in DC.
Also if you look at their street levelers.Marvel's characters have to have powers to be on the level of DC's.Black Widow and Cap had to take a serum to be on Batman's level and above and still they dwarf in comparison to Cassandra Cain whom trained to that level.
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Post by Crom-Cruach on Dec 30, 2010 16:21:44 GMT -5
they are considered to be top tier in Marvel.They wouldn't be in DC. as pointed out, different writing paradigm, different result. What they consider "top tier" is not the same in Marvel. Overall there is a character to match or beat every DC character in marvel. But different writing method/form mean that more characters of certain types do appear. It has no impact overall on which universe is more powerful that's what I posit. Also if you look at their street levelers.Marvel's characters have to have powers to be on the level of DC's.Black Widow and Cap had to take a serum to be on Batman's level and above and still they dwarf in comparison to Cassandra Cain whom trained to that level. Writing paradigm nothing more. Considering that they are how they did it really is only secondary. Marvels hates "normal" humans. It always tries to give powers to their street levelers because to them "I know kung fu" is not acceptable. DC is fine with that and takes his cake, eats it and has fun. Just because Captain America needs a serum to be in batman's league fighting wise doesn't mean he isn't. |
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Vance Astro
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Post by Vance Astro on Dec 30, 2010 16:28:40 GMT -5
they are considered to be top tier in Marvel.They wouldn't be in DC. as pointed out, different writing paradigm, different result. What they consider "top tier" is not the same in Marvel. Overall there is a character to match or beat every DC character in marvel. But different writing method/form mean that more characters of certain types do appear. It has no impact overall on which universe is more powerful that's what I posit. Also if you look at their street levelers.Marvel's characters have to have powers to be on the level of DC's.Black Widow and Cap had to take a serum to be on Batman's level and above and still they dwarf in comparison to Cassandra Cain whom trained to that level. Writing paradigm nothing more. Considering that they are how they did it really is only secondary. Marvels hates "normal" humans. It always tries to give powers to their street levelers because to them "I know kung fu" is not acceptable. DC is fine with that and takes his cake, eats it and has fun. Just because Captain America needs a serum to be in batman's league fighting wise doesn't mean he isn't. It's not a different writing paradigm...DC heroes are just stronger.Only one or two Marvel powerhouses could match up with DC's and DC has a boatload.The characters I named are considered top tier because whomever above them is either a Skyfather or an Abstract being and therefore don't count. |
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Post by Crom-Cruach on Dec 30, 2010 16:34:37 GMT -5
It's not a different writing paradigm...DC heroes are just stronger. No it's a different writing paradigm. DC writes stories to make you go "WoW". They write grand sagas, epic legendary bouts. Their characters are shining heroes, terrible demons. They are majestic, terrible and beautiful to behold. The out come is that certain types of characters are a lot more common, how stories are written will be different and how the universe progresses before the next crisis will be very different. Overall power is not better in DC. What is more common is. It doesn't change which universe is stronger. The characters I named are considered top tier because whomever above them is either a Skyfather or an Abstract being and therefore don't count. They do count, they exist in the universe, they are participants in it's storylines and impact it's existence. They fully count. Just because Marvel doesn't use them as often or favor these types of characters doesn't eliminate their power or their relevance to the setting. |
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Post by Erik-El on Dec 30, 2010 16:47:26 GMT -5
@crom:
The characters you are trying to consider to even the playing fields are abstract or 'neutral' beings.
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Post by Crom-Cruach on Dec 30, 2010 16:51:09 GMT -5
@crom: The characters you are trying to consider to even the playing fields are abstract or 'neutral' beings. I'm not trying to consider then. I consider then. They are part of the Marvel universe as much as Cap or Peter Parker. Writing difference are the only thing that prevents them from being seen or acting more often. |
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Post by Erik-El on Dec 30, 2010 16:52:42 GMT -5
Since abstracts are not actually heroes. Most do not even care about anything but their own designed purposes. So why are you trying to consider them in a discussion about heroes?
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Vance Astro
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Post by Vance Astro on Dec 30, 2010 17:41:51 GMT -5
It's not a different writing paradigm...DC heroes are just stronger. No it's a different writing paradigm. DC writes stories to make you go "WoW". They write grand sagas, epic legendary bouts. Their characters are shining heroes, terrible demons. They are majestic, terrible and beautiful to behold. The out come is that certain types of characters are a lot more common, how stories are written will be different and how the universe progresses before the next crisis will be very different. Overall power is not better in DC. What is more common is. It doesn't change which universe is stronger. The characters I named are considered top tier because whomever above them is either a Skyfather or an Abstract being and therefore don't count. They do count, they exist in the universe, they are participants in it's storylines and impact it's existence. They fully count. Just because Marvel doesn't use them as often or favor these types of characters doesn't eliminate their power or their relevance to the setting. But again..you said "It's a misconception that DC HEROES are stronger than Marvel HEROES" so no they don't count.Odin isn't a Marvel Superhero.He's a skyfather.Galactus isn't a superhero etc. etc. As far as Marvel heroes go their upper tier is far weaker than DC's. I'm not comparing the universes as a whole..just heroes. |
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Painkiller
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Post by Painkiller on Dec 30, 2010 20:49:59 GMT -5
-Kryptonite is the only way to kill Superman (He was killed by Doomsday, wasn't he?)
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Post by Phantom Stargrave on Dec 31, 2010 6:31:22 GMT -5
-Kryptonite is the only way to kill Superman (He was killed by Doomsday, wasn't he?) I don't remember anyone recently saying this. |
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Post by Lord Barbatos on Dec 31, 2010 9:45:29 GMT -5
Misconcepton
omega effect and omega beams are the same
people important to the source can survive the beams
doomsady>darkseid
thanos beats everyone
hal jordan is the most powerful lantern
marvel sky fathers can bust galaxies
marvel's silverage showings count cause unlike DC they did'nt have a company wide retcon,never mind consistency.
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