Accord_Royal1738
Team Buster Ledger
Driving the Avatar Press bandwagon
Posts: 1,159
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Post by Accord_Royal1738 on Jul 12, 2011 14:45:13 GMT -5
No, Logan rushed to disarm Cap from the blade, not finish him off or injure him. You can see he doesn't even extract his claws.
You can't have the "clear" upper hand with an equal amount of hits and both combatants clearly injured before one of them uses an outside the box wild card to make the other listen to reason (since Wolverine willingly listened to Cap afterwards, it's not like Cap even used the blade to "beat" Wolverine).
Also, you're acting as if Cap didn't try to cheap-shoot Wolverine with the blade (but Logan dodged) while Wolverine was explaining what he did to his leg, or that Cap didn't attack him with the shield (which led to the move that disabled Logan's claws) while Wolverine was explaining himself. Cap is as much guilty of playing dirty as Logan is.
And Wolverine only attacked Cap with a view to killing him by giving in to his berserker rage after he tried to take the blade away from Cap from behind, and Cap slashed him across the chest. You can see his eyes turning red."Blaming him", or not, is irrelevant to the point. The muramasa blade is not in Captain America's regular equipment, and in a fight that would have had the exact same development as the one in Origins but no mystical blade randomly laying around, Cap would have gone down due to the blood clot while Wolverine would be walking away the victor.
Post the panel where Logan says he's going for the kill before Cap starts using the blade, if you please. Because Wolverine only tries to kill Cap after Cap slashes him with the muramasa blade. Wolverine simply says Cap's wound will inevitably kill him if he keeps it up. 1. I meant "finish" by actually ending their fight, not necessarily wounding him or anything. It was pretty clear that Cap was weakened to the point where losing the muramasa would pretty much end his chances to hurt Logan. 2. I'll concede on this point, but I maintain the belief to this day that Cap only threw the shield at Logan to let him know, "hey, I'm not going anywhere" instead of, "I'm going to straight-up decapitate your ass, midget." 3. You posted it yourself. Logan decides to kill Cap after getting wounded in the upper chest. I just realized it was after he started using the blade.
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Post by Morpheus on Jul 12, 2011 14:54:24 GMT -5
Then I agree to that.
Not sure about that. Since Logan recognises that the shield toss is a strategic manoeuvre that Cap devised in order to crush Logan's tendons. So, while Logan was talking to him, he was thinking ahead. He also attacked Wolverine at the end of # 3 without Logan having provoked him at that point (I think Cap was written rather OoC in those issues, in general).
Yes, but Wolverine went berserk only after Cap resorted to using the blade immediately after being wounded in the thigh. Chronologically, Cap grabbed the blade before Wolverine went lethal.
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devias
Street Level Ledger
"Forced kindness is an act of evil."
Posts: 251
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Post by devias on Jul 12, 2011 21:49:08 GMT -5
EDIT: The general consensus is that neither Captain America or Deathstroke takes a majority against Wolverine. But what's the consensus here? Personally I think either stands the same chance of beating each other. I'd side with Deathstroke, if only because he's much cooler.
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Accord_Royal1738
Team Buster Ledger
Driving the Avatar Press bandwagon
Posts: 1,159
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Post by Accord_Royal1738 on Jul 12, 2011 21:52:11 GMT -5
So the consensus is Captain America? Not at all. I'm pretty sure I'm the only person who's sided with Cap thus far.
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Post by Crom-Cruach on Jul 12, 2011 21:55:07 GMT -5
Deathstroke wins not cap.
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Post by xdmempstrikesback on Jul 13, 2011 15:58:22 GMT -5
Crazy thread. Slade is cool. I'm going with Cap...I'm always going with Cap...even if he can lose ...why ? Because Cap is The Hero
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Post by Crom-Cruach on Jul 13, 2011 16:02:01 GMT -5
Heroes die too you know...
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Post by Admin on Jul 13, 2011 16:03:05 GMT -5
BLASPHEMY!
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Post by Crom-Cruach on Jul 13, 2011 16:06:28 GMT -5
I beg to differ
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Post by Admin on Jul 13, 2011 16:09:14 GMT -5
Too bad he wasn't actually "dead."
BAZINGA!
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Post by Crom-Cruach on Jul 13, 2011 16:11:01 GMT -5
Too bad he wasn't actually "dead." BAZINGA! you're just in denial and following american comic book logic where no one stays dead
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Post by Admin on Jul 13, 2011 16:14:32 GMT -5
haha, I actually wish he did die. I don't hate Cap, but give what appeared to be his death some lasting meaning. Instead, we were given the "ZOMG IT'S A DR.DOOM GUN AND HE'S LOST IN SPACE AND TIME OMFGGGGGGG!"
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Post by Morpheus on Jul 13, 2011 16:16:18 GMT -5
Brubaker had actually conceived the story as such from the beginning, with Cap returning, like, 5 issues later. Marvel actually asked him to prolonge it.
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Post by Admin on Jul 13, 2011 16:17:31 GMT -5
That's why I said what appeared to be his death.
If you want, I'll elaborate and go "what appeared to be his death to the viewer." I know that was the plan since they always have these things lined up well in advance, but it was lame, imho. Friggin' marketing ploy to increase sales. It worked, too. lol
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Post by Admin on Jul 13, 2011 16:18:07 GMT -5
But I was unaware he wanted to bring Cap back in just 5 issues. I wonder what the original plan was.
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Post by Morpheus on Jul 13, 2011 16:30:19 GMT -5
I think that (sc-fi gun) was the plan all along, Marvel just realised how profitable that story could turn out to be and the gamble payed off, with one of the best runs in recent memory.
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Post by Dane on Jul 13, 2011 16:33:22 GMT -5
Let's be fair, the sci-fi gun idea was stupid as hell. Deaths don't mean anything in comics and that makes them cheap.
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Post by Admin on Jul 13, 2011 16:35:03 GMT -5
I think that (sc-fi gun) was the plan all along, Marvel just realised how profitable that story could turn out to be and the gamble payed off, with one of the best runs in recent memory. It received so much attention and made most of the national news networks with coverage like "THE DEATH OF AN ICON!" and such. Agreed, Dane. Doctor Doom's plot gun should be erased, lol.
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Post by Morpheus on Jul 13, 2011 16:35:04 GMT -5
Agreed on both accounts. My disdain for the idea is the reason I have avoided to read Captain America Reborn to this very day, despite being an avid admirer of Bru's work in general, and his Captain America, in particular.
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Post by Admin on Jul 13, 2011 16:36:15 GMT -5
Agreed on both accounts. My disdain for the idea is the reason I have avoided to read Captain America Reborn to this very day, despite being an avid admirer of Bru's work in general, and his Captain America, in particular. But it has Gargan beating Bucky with a kick! You MUST read it! Oh, Crossbones plays quite the role too! He stands around with guns, gets pushed by Falcon, and then sill just stands around with guns.
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