Silver
The Unstoppable Ledgernaut
The Fourth Precept
Posts: 4,654
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Post by Silver on Jul 31, 2011 0:00:33 GMT -5
How exactly can you dodge Cyclops' aim? His aim is just looking at you. As others have said, with the visor on, he would have to crane his neck and move his head, but why would that be a major obstacle or prevent him from maintaining visual pace with his opponent? Turning his head is one of the most simplistic motions he could make and is naturally reflexive when fixated on a moving target anyway. That's the same thing I was thinking Silver.Also if I'm not mistaken. (I don't know about his current costume) but Cyclops at one point had a trigger in his gloves that would activate his optic blast instead of touching his visor.So there is really not excuse for how much he's been dodged. It could just be the equivalent of how writers treat Hulk's speed: when fighting street levelers and his own rogues, he is more of a moderately slow brick with decent running speed. But when fighting Thor or Gladiator or other fast bricks, he suddenly exhibits speed on comparable degrees with them. I have seen scans of the glove-activation on CV. Those, like the relativistic optic beams, seem outdated. The only explanation I could give is that his optic beams actually do not travel at light speed and that was foremost a detail instituted during the Classic era, but if there are more recent examples that lend credence to his optic blasts being light speed or if there is other information I just lack, I do not pretend to be very knowledgeable on Cyclops anyway. By the way, how consistent is Scott's spatial awareness ability? It seems to be ignored from some material I have read with him. Honestly though, if it is a frequent power, it makes even less sense for characters to dodge his attacks when he has heightened perceptions.
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Post by Admin on Jul 31, 2011 6:55:20 GMT -5
Hey, who deleted by post? It was said in a joking manner, but it's a legitimate counter example. Wolverine isn't the only one to block/deflect the optic blast, Ord did it too.
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Post by Erik-El on Jul 31, 2011 11:03:44 GMT -5
Everyone always says Origins is absolute PIS bullshit until it is convenient to use in an argument.
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Post by Morpheus on Jul 31, 2011 11:07:56 GMT -5
Everyone always says Origins is absolute PIS bullshit until it is convenient to use in an argument. You know I never did.
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Silver
The Unstoppable Ledgernaut
The Fourth Precept
Posts: 4,654
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Post by Silver on Jul 31, 2011 11:57:00 GMT -5
Could someone more knowledgeable on Cyclops than I am (which should be just about anyone on this site) respond to my post? It could just be the equivalent of how writers treat Hulk's speed: when fighting street levelers and his own rogues, he is more of a moderately slow brick with decent running speed. But when fighting Thor or Gladiator or other fast bricks, he suddenly exhibits speed on comparable degrees with them. I have seen scans of the glove-activation on CV. Those, like the relativistic optic beams, seem outdated. The only explanation I could give is that his optic beams actually do not travel at light speed and that was foremost a detail instituted during the Classic era, but if there are more recent examples that lend credence to his optic blasts being light speed or if there is other information I just lack, I do not pretend to be very knowledgeable on Cyclops anyway. By the way, how consistent is Scott's spatial awareness ability? It seems to be ignored from some material I have read with him. Honestly though, if it is a frequent power, it makes even less sense for characters to dodge his attacks when he has heightened perceptions.
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Post by Erik-El on Jul 31, 2011 12:09:39 GMT -5
Could someone more knowledgeable on Cyclops than I am (which should be just about anyone on this site) respond to my post? It could just be the equivalent of how writers treat Hulk's speed: when fighting street levelers and his own rogues, he is more of a moderately slow brick with decent running speed. But when fighting Thor or Gladiator or other fast bricks, he suddenly exhibits speed on comparable degrees with them. I have seen scans of the glove-activation on CV. Those, like the relativistic optic beams, seem outdated. The only explanation I could give is that his optic beams actually do not travel at light speed and that was foremost a detail instituted during the Classic era, but if there are more recent examples that lend credence to his optic blasts being light speed or if there is other information I just lack, I do not pretend to be very knowledgeable on Cyclops anyway. By the way, how consistent is Scott's spatial awareness ability? It seems to be ignored from some material I have read with him. Honestly though, if it is a frequent power, it makes even less sense for characters to dodge his attacks when he has heightened perceptions. The links I provided in my initial argument have a link that provides an image of modern Cyclops.
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Silver
The Unstoppable Ledgernaut
The Fourth Precept
Posts: 4,654
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Post by Silver on Jul 31, 2011 12:13:01 GMT -5
Erik-El: I see. I overlooked that when I explained my point about the light speed showings being outdated. Can you answer my question about spatial awareness though?
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Post by Erik-El on Jul 31, 2011 12:59:33 GMT -5
PM'd due to off topic nature.
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Post by Admin on Jul 31, 2011 17:43:09 GMT -5
I complain about Way destroying Deadpool and downplaying Omega Red. How does that translate at all to a Cyc/Wolverine encounter under him?
Besides, there's still Wolverine detecting the blast during Mutant Massacre and Ord deflecting it in Astonishing. I'm sure there's quite a few more examples out there with proper research.
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Post by Erik-El on Jul 31, 2011 17:56:15 GMT -5
I complain about Way destroying Deadpool and downplaying Omega Red. How does that translate at all to a Cyc/Wolverine encounter under him? Besides, there's still Wolverine detecting the blast during Mutant Massacre and Ord deflecting it in Astonishing. I'm sure there's quite a few more examples out there with proper research. Sure is. Plot. Astonishing also had Cyclops blasts produce heat if I remember correctly so some things are just mistakes or misrepresentations. Origins is another example of Cyclops' optic blasts producing heat, which if anyone knew Cyclops at all would know that is complete bullshit.
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Post by Erik-El on Jul 31, 2011 17:58:08 GMT -5
Next thing I know, people will be proposing that Flash is not capable of light speed because his non-speedster villains all have kicked his ass at one time or another.
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Post by Admin on Jul 31, 2011 17:59:02 GMT -5
So because the artist has the aftermath producing smoke it renders everything beforehand moot?
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Post by Admin on Jul 31, 2011 18:00:33 GMT -5
Next thing I know, people will be proposing that Flash is not capable of light speed because his non-speedster villains all have kicked his ass at one time or another. That's ridiculous and you know it.
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Post by Erik-El on Jul 31, 2011 18:00:37 GMT -5
So because the artist has the aftermath producing smoke it renders everything beforehand moot? No. But I could easily counter with "So because Cyclops misses (which is bullshit in itself in most cases), that somehow correlates to the speed of his power?".
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Post by Erik-El on Jul 31, 2011 18:01:41 GMT -5
If I miss shooting you with a gun, would you try to argue that my bullets do not travel at 700mph? Or would you just say you got out of the way in time?
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Post by Admin on Jul 31, 2011 18:02:00 GMT -5
No one is disputing that his optic blast is fast, but there's been plenty of examples during 616 continuity to bring this into question. If it was so clear-cut, it wouldn't need to be discussed in this thread to begin with. That's clearly not the case.
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Post by Erik-El on Jul 31, 2011 18:03:08 GMT -5
Next thing I know, people will be proposing that Flash is not capable of light speed because his non-speedster villains all have kicked his ass at one time or another. That's ridiculous and you know it. The proposal would be ridiculous yes. But still similar to the situation.
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Post by Admin on Jul 31, 2011 18:03:26 GMT -5
If I miss shooting you with a gun, would you try to argue that my bullets do not travel at 700mph? Or would you just say you got out of the way in time? Cool, but too bad that's not at all what I've been implying the entire time. I've pointed to examples where people have been able to react accordingly to the shot after it has been fired. Them dodging isn't the impressive aspect, it's the fact they've had the time to react after the blast has been produced.
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Post by Erik-El on Jul 31, 2011 18:05:10 GMT -5
No one is disputing that his optic blast is fast, but there's been plenty of examples during 616 continuity to bring this into question. If it was so clear-cut, it wouldn't need to be discussed in this thread to begin with. That's clearly not the case. By that logic, nothing will ever be able to be proven because there is counter-evidence to literally every single feat in comics. Superman durable enough to withstand a black hole? Sure thing. Yet still not-so-durable enough to be beat on by some robot or another? Yup that too.
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Post by Admin on Jul 31, 2011 18:05:23 GMT -5
That's ridiculous and you know it. The proposal would be ridiculous yes. But still similar to the situation. If you're going to get defensive over people questioning your proposal, don't bring it up in the first place. The whole point is to debate over the statement at hand. Not to attempt to belittle every piece of counter-argument just so we can move on and have it labeled as fact. I'm far from alone in questioning this, and it's upsetting that so far the discussion has been surrounded MOSTLY by judges.
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