Post by Erik-El on Apr 8, 2013 16:19:19 GMT -5
I guess we just don't see eye to eye on this one because the only time he ever made any kind of questionable remark beforehand was when he implied France is known for giving up but that's not being bigoted, that was just him reciting what was recent history for him.
No bigoted remarks against mutants, Ruskies, Africans, Middle Easterns or anything else up until that point despite having key plots involving them. Heck, he dated the Wasp, an Asian girl when he comes from a time of deep hatred for Asians.
At worst, he displayed some overzealous American patriotism with a few "Murica betta" lines. Other than that, he is just classic angry guy with the power to back it up.
I guess he wasn't usually that much different from mainstream Cap. He just often seemed more... I don't know... intense in his views of other people. I don't think mainstream Cap would ever had yelled out that France line or broken Sabretooth's face for using bad language when a woman was present.
It also bugs me when they indicated that he's sort of a Bible-thumper too, but without any real Christian life to back it up. After he took down Ult Nuke he came into his cell and started reading the Bible to him, and Thor stated that Cap goes to church every Sunday. And yet in Ultimates 1 he had no problem with dating married/estranged woman. As a Christian, that just rubs me the wrong way.
We have to keep in mind that Christians of today are most certainly not Christians of the 20s - 40s, which was his time period. Perverse language was not something you used anywhere but in the presence of other men and even then, it was frowned upon publicly.
Mainstream Cap wouldn't yell that France line, absolutely right on the money with that. But mainstream Cap is also a major advocate of politically correctness. There was no such thing as politically correct in either Cap's origins though so all it really means is 616 Cap adjusted to his new surroundings better (made apparent by Ultimate Cap's frustration of swears and scantly clad girls in the movie he went to see.
I wouldn't say Ultimate Cap was originally a Bible-thumper though. I think he was a typical believer from the time period. You go to church on Sunday but that was pretty much it for people that do not directly work in the church. So his Bible reading to Nuke was just another weird addition to his personality.
As far as the Wasp dating was concerned, it was not uncommon for Christian men and women to date when the woman was separated from an especially abusive husband. Marriage was until death back then for the vast majority but remaining with the partner wasn't. You can see this shown in lots of movies set in that time period. Now I know movies are hardly history but they do often reflect social characteristics accurately when accuracy is a goal.
Steve up until the Nuke storyline very much reminds me of my grandpa, which is exactly the idea. Angry old American with old-timey values in a strapping immortal body.