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Post by DedmanWalkin on Jan 27, 2012 1:12:42 GMT -5
Scenario: The scenario is... fight each other. Tournament style. The battle will take place on Attilan, the Inhuman city when it was on the Moon. It is completely uninhabited. Destroying the Moon or any other celestial body is against the rules. Team Scream (DedmanWalkin) NeXus - Black Bolt Dane - Shriek Matezoide - Klaw DedmanWalkin - Dazzler Team Beatboks Jaguar Black Hood Comet Arion
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Beatboks
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Post by Beatboks on Jan 27, 2012 21:41:40 GMT -5
I'll try and have a strategy up by tomorrow
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Post by Dane on Jan 27, 2012 22:38:11 GMT -5
List your team compositions. Good luck to you both
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Beatboks
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Post by Beatboks on Jan 28, 2012 7:32:50 GMT -5
www.comicvine.com/myvine/beatboks1/arion-lord-high-mage-of-atlantis/108-579344/?Just uploaded 36 images on a new Arion Folder on CV Deadman (if you want to check them out to plan from). These were for the most part from the average power level period I talked about on the set up thread. The few images where he fights the turbaned mage and Chaon are after another power up with the many colored threads. so for this battle not that power level (just to show intent) I'll try and look at getting a strategy up in the morning (10.30pm here and I'm beat)
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Beatboks
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Post by Beatboks on Jan 29, 2012 1:19:25 GMT -5
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Post by DedmanWalkin on Jan 29, 2012 4:09:24 GMT -5
I'll post my strat before picking a part your post.
Now you were correct to assume that I would lead with an attack but you were incorrect as to the nature of it. NeXus Bolt will use but a whisper to put you on the defense but ultimately, this was to provide DazzmanWalkin with enough energy to create a blinding light. MateKlaw will contribute as well to ensure I get the brightness I need. DaneShriek will spend that time completely dampening all sounds that your team makes apart from their foot steps. As an accidental byproduct of this dampening, Arion will be unable to cast any spells that require his voice meaning no Eye of Ra. Staring at the sun in that close of proximity will blind your team if only temporarily. MateKlaw will use this time to put up illusions of my team as we retreat. NeXus Bolt has all the knowledge on Attilan that Black Bolt does so we'll escape into the Alpha Primitives underground pathways.
MateKlaw and DaneShriek will stay in the area and keep your team permanently deafened and mute. In fact, they'll be using Klaw's constructs and Shriek's sound mimicry to attempt to turn your people against each other. Your people are not character amalgams like my characters and as such will function with only limited information from their universe. Klaw recently reduced Sue Storm to a whimpering mess and Shriek almost convinced Bruce Wayne that he is crazy. Both are amazing when it comes to manipulating people with sound. This is all to put your team off balance and start mistrusting one another. Arion's dress sets him apart from the rest, which means that he is likely different and we all fear what is different. Mate and Dane will use that to their advantage and attempt to convince the Black Hood, Jaguar, and Comet that he is to blame for their current predicament. Black Hood looks to be a hot head from the scans so he'll take out his Luger and start questioning him. Arion won't be able to reply thanks to his voice being nullified by Shriek which will only further exacerbate things. Even if they don't outright attempt to kill him, Arion won't like a gun being pointed at him and likely attempt to defend himself.
As your team fights itself, me and NeXus will head towards the Xerogen Crystals. We will secure quite a few and head towards the environmental controls. Using the controls and the crystals, we turn the life support system into a delivery system. MateKlaw sends a construct to find us and relay the location of your team. We then send as much Xerogen Mist into that area as possible. MateKlaw is sound and is thus immune to the mist, he forms a forcefield around DaneShriek protecting him. Your team is too busy to notice that mists are engulfing you. Arion will likely be protected but Black Hood, Comet, and Jaguar will be reduced to dull witted Alpha Primitives. MateKlaw sends another construct to tell me and NeXus to turn off the mist and scrub the area. MateKlaw then proceeds to use his sound-fueled crushing constructs to kill your Alpha Primitive team members leaving only Arion.
At this point, it is a 4 v 1 and the 1 is deaf and mute. Arion does not realize that he is currently deaf as Dane will have allowed all ambient noise to function correctly allowing NeXus Bolt the ability to get relatively close undetected. Me and MateKlaw will provide NeXus further cover by producing blinding light in front of Arion's eyes. Once NeXus is right behind Arion, he hits him with a Master Blow either KOing or outright vaporizing him.
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Beatboks
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Post by Beatboks on Jan 29, 2012 5:31:16 GMT -5
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Beatboks
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Post by Beatboks on Jan 29, 2012 5:46:56 GMT -5
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Post by DedmanWalkin on Jan 29, 2012 23:13:27 GMT -5
100 Ton Physical Stats is the maximum for the Utility/Wildcard. A 100 Tonner could not tank Black Bolt's energy release at close range and survive. Arion's durability will be capped as per the rules meaning my attack at the very least KOs him netting a victory.
The problem with Magic Users, and also why I generally avoid using them, is that their power source is generally very exterior and unique to that universe. As such, Arion's Many Colored Threads aren't a thing in the Marvel Universe and as such, his power levels would be limited to that magic which he could carry with him. We know this to be true because when he moved forward in time to post-Infinite Crisis he was severely weakened.
The only way that Dazzler can put incredibly bright light out at a goo enough distance is by refining it into a laser beam which she would then direct into Arion's face, the gem would receive exactly 0 light but Arion's retinas would be severely damaged.
Now to dissect your strategy.
Intangibility still leaves you very vulnerable to light and sound based attacks so my attack will still be very effective. I plan to use illusions as well so your illusions will be facing my illusions. Klaw can track your actual team via your team's heartbeats because to them sound is sound.
Shriek is not weak to sonics, on the contrary he is deaf. In the video, Batman turned his sound generators against him by overloading one with an electrified batarang. The Suit he wears is the only way that he can hear now.
Klaw won't be BFR'd that easily. You have to BFR his sound gun and that will be in Dane's hands the entire time while MateKlaw performs his tasks. Also, the enemy moved into Arion's portal he was not sucked into it. Arion would still have to trick him into bumbling into one. And since the only time you'll see the real MateKlaw is when he wants you to, that particular strategy won't work.
I would destroy Black Hood with Dazzler's powers should I ever have to fight. Her ability to completely blind him would render his armory rather useless.
Dane would also destroy Jaguar if they have to fight. He would then use his sound generators to overload his heightened senses. He would be bleeding out of his ears when Dane delivers his hypersonic coup de grace.
Comet would never be able to leave the battle to go pilfer tech because MateKlaw will be there to kill him as MateKlaw is completely impervious to all of Comet's attacks. His sound-fueled crushing constructs would also make mince meat of him.
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Post by Dane on Jan 29, 2012 23:23:15 GMT -5
Sorry to butt in, but all magic users will have their power sources available. The usage of Attilan was never meant to convey that the fight takes place in MU or that DCU magic users would be weakened. It's merely meant to indicate a neutral ground.
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Post by DedmanWalkin on Jan 30, 2012 1:04:09 GMT -5
Arion's powers are temporally dependent, this is a fact stated in canon. There are any number of character choices who vastly benefit from and are weakened by the environment chosen. Namor would be vastly weakened in a desert environment but be incredibly powerful in an island environment. This is the risk you take when choosing your characters. What if you had chosen Krypton as the battleground and someone had chosen a Kryptonian? Would you let them have their powers? It is the same thing, he chose someone whose powers are temporally fixed and he will have to adapt just like Arion did.
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Post by Dane on Jan 30, 2012 2:13:23 GMT -5
Let's put it this way: You can accept what I've said for fact or I can rewrite the location until it fits what I said as fact. Your choice.
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Beatboks
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Post by Beatboks on Jan 30, 2012 2:24:21 GMT -5
Arion's powers are temporally dependent, this is a fact stated in canon. There are any number of character choices who vastly benefit from and are weakened by the environment chosen. Namor would be vastly weakened in a desert environment but be incredibly powerful in an island environment. This is the risk you take when choosing your characters. What if you had chosen Krypton as the battleground and someone had chosen a Kryptonian? Would you let them have their powers? It is the same thing, he chose someone whose powers are temporally fixed and he will have to adapt just like Arion did. Sorry but that is NO longer canon. I assume your referring to Powergirls revised origin just post COIE, where she was in touch with only a spirit aspect of her grandfather who was quite weak. In the Arion Immortal mini series (1992) and several after that Arion is once again a powerful mage which retcon's the earlier. As I stated in the thread I gave a link to in the set up thread, Arion has been depowered a few times one lasting 8 issues. During which time he could only do minor magics with the ambient magic around him. These depowerments had very little to do with the power source, more so the way he uses. It is not unusual for Arion to push his powers beyond their limit, literally either completely burning up every bit of energy within him or destroying his internal link to the power. He did so in early issues in a battle with his brother Garn, after which Garn imprisoned him in a dungeon where he had no light to replenish his power. Once he was back in the light he gained power back and took a few issues to rebuilt it's level (battle issue 3 original series, trapped in 4 power back by 6 IIRC- though not to full levels). He also burned out every bit of his power and most of his connection to it ending the ice age. he then gained access to his fathers power source in darkworld which he burned up to defeat his Brother and trap him within himself (being at the time unable to kill him). After that he had to call on the weaver to get the many colored threads again. Finally he was depowered when his mother Dark Majestra removed his sun gem (the source of his power), the weaver then had to re-weave a connection for him to the power. he defeated his mother and got back the sun gem. Two scans of from Arion Immortal - 1992 in the modern era that totally disperse the idea that his magic is linked to any era (in current continuity- as these are after the powerless modern era Arion) www.comicvine.com/myvine/beatboks1/all-images/108-52364/arion_immortal_2/105-2180470/www.comicvine.com/myvine/beatboks1/all-images/108-52364/arion_immortal_1/105-2180469/Arion isn't beyond Superman Durability, but he could shield himself as easy as he did here. He could after all onlt mystically enhance his granddaughter ("when she was") to superman levels (al la Power girl) as far as Dazzler easily taking out BH. She still has to connect and he's faced energy manipulators before and been able to avoid blast. As for blinded It would be simple for Arion to shield their eyes www.comicvine.com/myvine/beatboks1/black-hood/108-576977/bh_last_stand_get_away/105-2166993/
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Post by DedmanWalkin on Jan 30, 2012 3:16:20 GMT -5
That is not the time to which I am referring. I am talking about during the Camelot Falls arc in 2008 post Infinite Crisis where he was relatively weak, relying on stored magic. Superman schooled him with just his superspeed. My Retcon beats your Retcon. Arion can't have durability over that of a 100 tonner, not Superman. His Durability will be limited to that of someone like Apocalypse who is a 100 tonner. This is what Black Bolt can do to Apocalypse: Replace Lodestone with Magneto in that scan and see if he can still zonk him. That scan is pure PIS or Lodestone is just pure stupid. Also, he won't have a motorcycle here. As for being able to hit him, Mystique, Destiny and Rogue are far faster and more skilled than Black Hood and Dazzler trounced them. You can't stop Dazzler's light from blinding them without blinding them yourself. Remember, they eyes require light to see. No light in, no sight. Sunglasses will not help you here. Even if you can somehow create a magical barrier that will stop a portion of light, I can always switch to strobe or use them to disorient him. This is if she only wants to slow him down, she can also create microwave lasers, forcefields, holograms, and a myriad of other things. Dazzler often gets a bum rap like Jubilee but she is incredibly damned powerful. I destroy Black Hood.
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Beatboks
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Post by Beatboks on Jan 30, 2012 4:07:41 GMT -5
1. I don't need to tank as I can deal with it in many ways. A simple vortex opened could divert the blast elsewhere. 2. Not familiar with that one to be honest, not that it matters. I stated in set up thread that I was taking Arion at his many colored thread level before power up and without the Darkworld connection to his power as it was the fairest level. he wasn't depowered and wasn't at ridiculous power levels. 3.. Hood will most definitely have his cycle. After the original was destroyed by Brain emperor dropping a city on it (issue 1 or 2 of Mighty Crusaders), Comet used the Altroxian technology of his space ship to build Hood a new little more advanced model that will be quite uselful in this environment www.comicvine.com/myvine/beatboks1/black-hood/108-576977/b_h_suped_hood_cycle_1/105-2180498/www.comicvine.com/the-mighty-crusaders-/37-24933/ Notice jet's for flight on cover as well. That technology was non metal or anti magnetic. Hood was worried about what loadstone would do to his other weapons. www.comicvine.com/myvine/beatboks1/black-hood/108-576977/hood_s_non_metal_hood_cycle/105-2180499/The battle with Loadstone was later in the series. Off course you can see. Never heard of sun glasses?? they filter light. All Arion has to do is put up a miner shield around my team to filter the light down to acceptable levels. Since your team will be expecting mine to be completely blinded and defenseless, they'll be caust by surprise. Also why the dual strategy. if your blinding my team and expect it to work why waste time and energy on the illusions. they'd be completely useless since as far as your team know Mine can't see them. It's a simple matter of playing possum (at least the illusions will), making your team believe the blinding worked and then hit them while they are completely unprepared. Since your team will think mine blind they wont be using the illusions OH and Comet will have plenty of time to throw together what ever since all my team will have a reprieve while yours are fighting our illusions.
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Post by DedmanWalkin on Jan 30, 2012 16:16:03 GMT -5
You can't open up a vortex if you don't know the attack is coming. Arion will be blinded, deaf, and mute. He won't know that NeXus is right behind him about to drop what is essentially a nuclear weapon on him. Essentially, if I can get NeXus into position, Arion is dead. No further debate can be made.
Again, Arion's powers are temporally fixed, my recton proves this as fact.
You don't get the vehicles of the person you chose. Batman would not get his Batmobile if you chose Batman. Black Hood will be without his motorcycle here. Unless you want to give me a Blackbird?
Again, unless Lodestone is made of pure stupid, he should have trounced him meaning that feat is PIS.
Go put on a pair of sunglasses and then go outside when the sun is at its zenith and take a good long look at it. See how long your vision lasts. Sunglasses do not protect from light that powerful. Now imagine all that light filtered into a powerful focused laser. You may try something like welder's goggles but those only work for moments at a time on a sun that is quite literally millions of miles away not beaming directly into your retinas.
My plan was never to use my initial blinding attack to kill your team as I stated plainly in my strategy. My Team doesn't have enough information on your team to know if it will work. Considering the number of people in the various comic book universe with super senses of some sort, Blindness will only daze some of them temporarily. The illusions take no time or effort to make so using them is a good idea.
I always have dual strategies. Look at the Rumble in the Bronx scenario on the Vine, I could have simply killed them rather than use subversion. Remember, I am actually on my team so my cautiousness is also there.
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Beatboks
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Post by Beatboks on Jan 30, 2012 17:35:07 GMT -5
Sorry but your just not gettting a free hit on a mystic of Arion's level. he'll sense the danger and be prepared. www.comicvine.com/myvine/beatboks1/arion-lord-high-mage-of-atlantis/108-579344/arion_sense_dager/105-2181271/He trusts his senses and will and always is prepared because of them. As you can also see from that scan when he's "powered" he doesn't need to speak spells to call on the eye of Ra (from original strategy) Dane has already settled that debate by saying all mystics will have access to their power. I could have said that Arion was at the Darkworld linked power level or the powered up one, but chose to be fair in his use of power. If Hawkman were in this fight he'd have his wings which are technically his vehicle. batman doesn't "FIGHT" in his Batmobile a whole hell of a lot. Hood does fight on his bike 60% of the time and almost ALL outdoor battles. It doesn't state what you say in the rules only that no character will have anything that places them above 100ton, the bike doesn't. In Dane's usual scenario the common thread is STANDARD gear. Hood's cycle is standard where Bat's mobile isn't, he doesn't use it in fights very often at all. What's PIS about it. If he was using his magnetic ability oh Hood's cycle reasonably (like anyone would) expecting that to work that would give hood the chance to strike before he turned on the other metal on him like armaments. hence feat. It's no more PIS than any other street level feat. The sunglasses comment was meant to point out that light can be filtered. Obviously a glass wont filter it as effectively as magic will. Yes but if you've blinded my team your illusions would be completely ineffective. So either you expected the blinding not to work or you are conceding that I have an effective defense for Dazzler. As to your illusions, they wont cut it as the scan in this post shows Arion will sense the danger elsewhere. On that change of tack on original strategy as I just re-read the rules and BFR not allowed. Arion doesn't BFR Klaw to the void of space. he creates a shield around him with no atmosphere within to create his own void - sorry for rule breach I forgot.
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Post by DedmanWalkin on Jan 31, 2012 1:23:38 GMT -5
Realistically, Arion should be limited but I'll go along with the ridiculous notion.
It says standard GEAR. Vehicles are not gear. Ask an pilot to grab his gear, he grabs his suitcase and flight suit not his Airplane. Also, Batman doesn't need to use his Batmobile all the often. He also carries Kryptonite on hi standard but he only ever uses it when he needs to use it.
Again, Lodestone would have to be pure stupidity in order to fall for something like that. Wolverine is one of the best street levelers around with feats that far exceed Black Hood and he would never ever win against Magneto without PIS.
Sure light can be filtered but not at the levels that I am talking about. Can Arion even do that, has he ever shown the ability to filter out light at solar levels?
The first blinding light is simply a directed ball of light like a spotlight that she is generating not a coherent laser like I will be using later. You aren't blinded, you are simply unable to see what is happening behind it. I even state in the post that it would be temporary measure. Why would I do that if I was intending to outright permanently blind you?
Before we continue, I need some information on how the Eye of Ra works. Does it seek out every possible threat to Arion or only the ones that he has aimed it at? What is its upper limit?
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Beatboks
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Post by Beatboks on Jan 31, 2012 2:13:42 GMT -5
1. Realistically I am taking Arion quite limited. If I was to take his higher levels it would be higher. 2. The scan with BH and loadstone was meant to show the earlier panels where he avoided energy blasters you don't have a magnetic so loadstone is irrelivent. Since you keep asking however he isn't the smartest tool in the shed no and his powers are no where near Magneto level. That would be like comparing superman to powerman. 3. I'll look for the scans of Arion using altering light when I get home ( on iPhone) 4. The eye of Ra is a spell to gain detailed information. Like many mystic/sensitives Arion can sense in an abstract way when danger is present or looming. Generally he calls in the eye when he senses danger but can't discern what exactly the danger is. In many instances he has still been prepared to defend because of his normal senses in the same way Spidey has avoided menu attacks. As the last scan showed he has learned to trust his senses.
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Beatboks
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Post by Beatboks on Jan 31, 2012 2:18:10 GMT -5
It's sort of like Strange using the eye of agamotto and fate using the orb of Nabu. Both can sense things they use these when they want the full story/ complete picture/ detailed intel
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