Beatboks
Team Buster Ledger
Posts: 2,206
|
Post by Beatboks on Feb 7, 2012 6:09:12 GMT -5
Except in this new environment on a planet Arion's power to control the weather/elements comes into play so he can suck the air away when he wants. except Arion is the son of two GOD's of "Pre-Cataclysm Atlantis". He was born half a million years ago. Saying he's human when he was still alive in the 21st century is completely and utterly stupid, when clearly he isn't. So a standard human can catch an arrow about to hit it's intended target in mid flight I'd certainly like to see you try that. Your like me a "standard human" aren't you? After he sacrificed every bit of his power to replenish the sun and end the Ice age he asked that Wynde and Chian to teach him to be a warrior. with no experience or training what so-ever and no power or mystic senses to warn him he was fighting with a sword like an experienced warrior in his first lesson. www.comicvine.com/myvine/beatboks1/arion-lord-high-mage-of-atlantis/108-579344/2191535-arion_becomes_almost_master_of_the_sword_in_one_lesson/105-2191536/On his second lesson he was learning to fight blind folded www.comicvine.com/myvine/beatboks1/arion-lord-high-mage-of-atlantis/108-579344/arion_s_second_sword_lesson_1/105-2191519/www.comicvine.com/myvine/beatboks1/arion-lord-high-mage-of-atlantis/108-579344/arion_s_second_sword_lesson/105-2191517/Which he mastered well. because he was easily able to dodge multiple attacks with his eyes closed. www.comicvine.com/myvine/beatboks1/arion-lord-high-mage-of-atlantis/108-579344/dodges_and_blocks_with_his_eyes_closed/105-2191520/All that was a completely depowered non mage. So with no power he is at peak human reaction levels. with his mystic abilities and the warnings they give him obviously higher. The fact that he can be aware of an imminent attack means he doesn't even need great reaction time. Calling you on this one. I've shown scans where Arion was aware in a vague way of things that had not yet happened but were merely being planned (namely his Brother Garn's plans in far away Atlantis). Proof that BB can strike before someone who can be for aware of anything is required. I have not just given strategy but complete proof of every aspect of mine being within the capability and the character of my team members. I'd like at leas one claim backed up. I see nothing to suggest that BB has speed in the Faster than FTL range or time warping ability (which was banned in set up) which is what would be required for this BS to be the case. Remember aside from the few scans I showed or Arion when his power was rebuilding after his completely loosing it where he needed spoken spells all Arion needs to do in all scans to cast a spell is gesture or think. Gladiator is quite inconsistent and even his peak speeds aren't light speed certainly not faster than. I think I've offered all I can to support my teams battle in both strategy, character actions and abilities.
|
|
|
Post by DedmanWalkin on Feb 9, 2012 14:34:12 GMT -5
Perhaps I should have used the word Peak rather than Standard as Bullseye who has no metahuman abilities can easily catch an arrow or 2. That arrow catching scan actually reveals some interesting things about Arion's character. Arion chose to risk his hands over using his far superior magic to save someone's life. This indicates that his reactions lead towards the physical rather than the magical. Especially since they were also surrounded at the time. You suggest that his magic makes him somehow faster than being without magic? That is ridiculous unless they are actively amping their speed through magic which would still require Arion to cast a spell at his Peak Human reaction times. Nothing I have seen from Arion suggest that he is anything beyond Peak Human.
I don't need Black Bolt to be faster than light or even faster than sound just faster than Peak Human. Spider-Man has Superhuman Speed which allows him to dance around people who are slower than him but he is nowhere near even faster than sound much less light. Wolverine is even slower than Spider-man and still he can dance around peak humans. Spider-man is actually fast enough to dance around Wolverine who has superhuman speed. The fact is that Black Bolt is an Inhuman which by default are faster than human meaning even if we discount any of his feats he is still faster than every human including Bullseye. Apocalypse is faster than peak human and can teleport, but he still wasn't able to get away from Black Bolt fast enough to save his life. What makes you think that Arion can?
Arion was aware that his evil brother who was not around was plotting something evil? No Wai! That's simple deduction not any precognitive ability. Unless you can show me a feat of him either dealing with someone with superhuman speed or using his supposed precognition to defeat someone who is faster than him, Arion gets blown away before he can protect himself.
Even if you can show me scans of that, you still have no means of dealing with Klaw. AIM removed his weakness to the vacuum, Dane removed all the Vibranium, and Dane made BFR illegal. These are the only ways you could possibly defeat him and none of them are viable here. Klaw is practically unkillable by your team and since he is also immortal he can continue fighting Arion till the end of time. At best, all you can hope for is a draw in this battle.
|
|
Beatboks
Team Buster Ledger
Posts: 2,206
|
Post by Beatboks on Feb 9, 2012 19:57:38 GMT -5
Of course the magic enhances his reaction time. It means he's aware of dangers before they occur. In one of my earlier scans (the second to show the eye of Ra) he shielded all Atlantis but still senses the city was endanger. He called on the eye to find out. The eye split of in many directions showing him many threats, "showing him all". Bottom line he's going to start reacting before Nexus Bolt blasts. That's why you would need greater speed to pull it off. He wont need to know the specific danger to throw up a shield. You keep focusing on BB being inhuman and Arion being human. But he's not. www.comicvine.com/myvine/beatboks1/arion-lord-high-mage-of-atlantis/108-579344/2194873-arion_01_05_more_than_human/105-2194879/You want to use Sidey as an example fine. Spiderman like Arion has advance warning of dangers. Not to the degree of Arion but still. He also has enhanced speed and with BOTH can dodge things that with his speed alone he could not. Arion doesn't even need to dodge. when he senses danger before it happens he merely has to think and form a shield. Since depowered Arion's physical reactions are at least peak human (can dodge two near simultaneous attacks while eyes closed - so quite arguably more), with his power and only needing to think to react OF COURSE his reactions are better. *wait there is danger about to strike, ohh it's alright in the instant I sensed it i mentally threw up a shield* Provide proof of Klaw now being immortal or any of your claims. Not that it matter. since we're now on a planet where Arion can effect the very forces of nature (namely the air) all the abilitiies of Klaw and Shriek (relying on sound which without air particles for it to move through wont be there) are gone. And even if I can't BFR etc Klaw can be contained in a shield or simply held by Jaguars strength.
|
|
Beatboks
Team Buster Ledger
Posts: 2,206
|
Post by Beatboks on Feb 9, 2012 19:58:59 GMT -5
I'm ready for voting, tired of going constantly over the same ground. when ever you are dedman.
|
|
|
Post by DedmanWalkin on Feb 12, 2012 5:06:33 GMT -5
I want to see this enhanced reaction time in action as nothing you have shown so far depict him reacting any quicker than a peak human. In fact, in one scan that you have shown depicting his senses in action he demonstrated nothing more than Peak Human reaction time and physically reacted before magically reacting suggesting that his magical reflexes are far slower than his physical reflexes. It is your scan, you chose to use it to illustrate his abilities and if that is all he is capable of then he is no faster, even with his mystical senses, than a peak human. Show me something faster otherwise you have already conceded that he is only of peak human reaction time which means he will die in the initial blast like Comet and Black Hood. Remember, Black Bolt's attack also relies on merely a thought to pull off, speech matters not. Klaw was cloned from a bittorrent sound file. If he could only exist as sound then this would be impossible, he can also exist as data. Shriek is uniquely capable of essentially producing hundreds and hundreds of copies of Klaw. All of which will be Klaw so you'll have to stop each and every one of them. How many people can Jaguar hold at once? Jaguar also doesn't stand a chance against Klaw. Surely you also realize that sound can travel through any form of matter. He has on occasion merged with water molecules which you can see here about the middle of the page. Essentially, to fully be rid of Klaw you would have to destroy the entire planet which is against the rules. During Klaws of the Panther, Klaw journeyed to a space station and was only defeated by MUSIC, a creation of his, destabilizing him. Klaw also can exist in other beings as well adding his abilities to there abilities as he has done multiple times with the Masters of Evil when he functioned as their primary means of transport since he can move at the speed of sound. He also used a similar process when creating MUSIC out of a normal girl. One of the multiple copies of Klaw could combine with each of my team members providing them enhanced speed, durability, and sound manipulation. Again, the best you can hope for is a draw because Klaw can't kill Arion and Arion can't kill Klaw. You have me at a vast disadvantage here as information on all my team members is readily available over the internet as they are relatively well known. Everything I say can be verified via a few quick searches which is why I don't feel as though I need to provide direct evidence. Any information on your team comes strictly from you as I have no means of verifying any information as there is relatively no information on them available which why I continually ask you for evidence. Simply put, you hold all the cards and can play them as you wish. So, show me Arion's best reaction time feat.
|
|
Beatboks
Team Buster Ledger
Posts: 2,206
|
Post by Beatboks on Feb 12, 2012 7:44:33 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by DedmanWalkin on Feb 16, 2012 2:44:11 GMT -5
You are suggesting that before the battle starts, Arion will know that he is going to be in a battle and will raise his shields? I'm sorry but that is not how any battle thread works. You start out with exactly the same knowledge as the other team which means Arion is caught just as flat footed as NeXus Bolt. He has no precognitive prep here only his peak human reflexes which are inferior to NeXus Bolt's Inhuman reaction time which is sufficient enough to best Gladiator. Both of those scans are completely useless in this battle as he does not get fore knowledge of the fight.
Interestingly enough, in that last scan Arion reveals that a mere space ship the size of a destroyer is his match in power. I would like to talk about that space ship and specifically what it was capable of and what it did in that story line. I want to know because Attilan is a city-sized ship composed of Kree technology where Black Bolt is the power source that allows it to go lightspeed and swat fleeing Skrull Ships and Shi'ar Ships from space without even needing to slow down. Unless that ship can show feats in excess of Attilan, Arion's power will not be enough.
Sound can travel through any particle, Air, Water, Solids. Klaw is capable of moving at the speed of sound, Arion can't keep up especially if there are hundreds of Klaws.
|
|
Beatboks
Team Buster Ledger
Posts: 2,206
|
Post by Beatboks on Feb 16, 2012 3:08:35 GMT -5
He's going to know the instant he's near the battle area. Just like he did in the scans I just posted. So he's going to be raising shields as soon as he's within range. that means no reaction.
He doesn't say match at all he says rival. Rival means "attempts" to equal. That doesn't mean it does always equal. Also in that story the space ship aside from having it's power source was being empowered by the magic of the demon Chaon. You've already seen some scans of the end of the battle. the one with Arion putting protective fields around 1000's of Atlanteans and pulling them from the destruction path to save them while Chaon attacks him. So tell me does BB have the power of space ship and a demon god??. It matter not anyway. As you keep ignoring the limits placed on you by choosing BB as your POWERHOUSE instead of your blaster. he is limited to Superman's heat vision output, which we have already determined makes him a 16 while Arion is limited to a 17. So he doesn't have his full power out put. Do try to keep up.
Sound can travel through particles but that movement will always be restricted by the type and vibrational allowance of the particle. It always moves best in air or liguid. For example Glass (which is a liquid based on it's properties) is a very good sound conductor. Balsa Wood vibrates better than most woods (and certainly better than metal or stone) so again it's great for acoustics.
If Arion places a field around Klaw he has no access to anything other than what Arion allows within the field. Since he can remove the air that means no particles
|
|
Beatboks
Team Buster Ledger
Posts: 2,206
|
Post by Beatboks on Feb 21, 2012 0:01:51 GMT -5
Waiting dedman
|
|
|
Post by DedmanWalkin on Feb 22, 2012 4:51:12 GMT -5
As far as I know, this is a random encounter which means we are near each other at the beginning of the battle, there is no travel time needed. We simply appeared there inexplicably through Dane's great power. You don't get to come into the battle with foreknowledge of the battle so your shields will be down unless they are always up which they are not as your arrow catching scan shows. Once we both appear, NeXus will deploy his attack at a much faster rate than Arion can even react.
My inquiry was not an attempt to boost Black Bolt's power level but to lower Arion's power level. When he says it rivals his power level, he also mentions it was without Magic so no Chaon power boost at that time. That fact is that when it comes to ships, the bigger they are the more powerful the power source. Attilan is a city sized ship, that destroyer was maybe the size of skyscraper. As Black Bolt is the power source of Attilan, he is capable of more power output than that destroyer which was of a similar power level to Arion. Superman used his heat vision recently to power Rip Hunter's Time Sphere during the Return of Bruce Wayne. Rip Hunter's Time Sphere would require incredible amounts of power to move from the end of the universe to roughly the 21st century in one jump. If Superman can power the Time Sphere with his Heat Vision alone then Black Bolt powering Attilan with his voice alone does not exceed Superman's power projection level. Now since Attilan would require more power to near the speed of light than that destroyer would, Arion's power level is decidedly lower than you have suggested in the past. Simply put, unless you can provide evidence that that destroyer, pre-magical power up, was capable of exceeding the power required to move Attilan at near the speed of light/Superman powering the Time Sphere from 10 minutes till the end of the universe to the 21st century, then Arion is indeed weaker than Black Bolt.
You know what we call sound traveling through a solid? Vibration, he can travel as a vibration through any material. He won't be able to manipulate it as he does Air or Water but he still won't be easily isolated. Again, Klaw moves at the speed of, you guessed it, sound. Show me Arion capturing someone who can move at that speed. Also, how are you going to stop Shriek from simply producing multiple copies? Also, I notice that even with his shields active, he can still talk to people which means sound can travel out of his shields with no issue meaning Klaw can just literally walk out of his shield. Show me Arion enclosing someone in a sound proof shield.
|
|
Beatboks
Team Buster Ledger
Posts: 2,206
|
Post by Beatboks on Feb 22, 2012 10:18:26 GMT -5
A random encounter means what it says. It means that there is no design or pattern to our meeting. Therefore we have to "happen upon" each other. how ever you look at that there is a period no matter how brief that we haven't don that yet. For all BB's powers he doesn't have any enhanced senses Arion has a mystic sense. therefore there is an advantage of warning. Since both can use the energy as quickly as thinking it Arion does have a reaction advantage. And I was pointing out that rival means challenge's not necessarily matches or exceeds. Unlike Arion Chaon does have an understanding of the energies of science and was adding to the ships power throughout. Since Arion proved in the said issue that he was able to dispatch the ship while fighting Chaon clearly it wasn't a very close rival was it. Oh but wait you said the larger the ship the more power. But Rip Hunters time sphere is barely the size of my bedroom, maybe your more limited than I thought . As for proving anything about Arion's power level I'll simply refer you to your earlier posts So honestly I don't need to prove anything, your own statements so far have shown that in the scans I've already used you have argued repeatedly that Arion breaks the rules. Now I'm expected to believe that BB is more powerful but doesn't sorry just not flying. Where do you think he's getting access to the solid. I've already said he will enclose your team in a force field (i.e. cutting them off from all non air particles ) , the air particles he will simply remove with his control over the elements. So once the air is removed from within the force field their will be no particles that they have any access to to move sound through. Fast as sound in a environment with no particles for it to move through is a dead stop. As for him talking he hasn't removed the air (and therefore particles) from those shields. I'm done, all your rebuttals are repetitious and it's getting boring repeating myself.
|
|
|
Post by DedmanWalkin on Feb 23, 2012 2:52:20 GMT -5
I feel as though we need a ruling here. Random Encounters, as I understand them, are simply that. Both teams being moved to the battlefield instantaneously and encountering one another. Either way, you don't get to have your shields up before the battle occurs which means you still have to react to the stimulus at peak human reaction time which is far below Black Bolt's Inhuman reaction time.
Rival's definition in this case means equal or peer unless you believe that the power source of the ship is in competition with the power in Arion.
Time Travel devices are not ships but just that, Time Travel devices. Time Travel devices automatically require ridiculous amounts of power to function.
Remember when I said, you hold all the cards and can play them as you wish? You simply had only played cards that specifically buffed your case. I had not yet seen them all and as such was making a judgement based upon the cards played. I am assuming those scans that you have shown are at his lower power level and as such relevant to this discussion. Remember, you chose obscure characters so you have to deal with the repercussions.
If you move the air particles, you move Klaw. You can't move the air particles without moving Klaw because he exists within the particles themselves. If you filter out the air particles you also filter out Klaw. As I have noted, sound can still travel through his shields so when you move the particles there would be nothing to stop Klaw from coming with them.
You have yet to actually respond to any of my queries which is the result of you choosing relatively unknown characters.
|
|
Beatboks
Team Buster Ledger
Posts: 2,206
|
Post by Beatboks on Feb 23, 2012 21:16:55 GMT -5
I don't see the need for the ruling TBO. even if we take it your way (which I;m fine with) BB as you put it only has to think to blast, Arion only has to think to shield, intangible etc. Once in the battle field BB would have to see and aim before blasting Arion would know of the danger in that instant. Both Shield and blast are made simultaneously. So unless BB brakes the rule you accuse me of breaking in blasting before we are in the battle zone I still react in plenty of time.
Rival - 1. One who attempts to equal or surpass another, or who pursues the same object as another; a competitor. 2. One that equals or almost equals another in a particular respect. 3.To attempt to equal or surpass.
The fact that he easily dispatched the ship while fighting another more potent proves it was far from his equal.
Yes I've been picking scans of his lower throughout. Which I might add is more than I can say for you. I have no knowledge of your characters except BB and all you've given me is two links. The information on these you've refuted without support. Let's look at those scans. I gave a scan from a depowered period where Arion caught an arrow. AS I showed in another scan from the same issue (and detailed afterward - that the reason he needed the verbal spell to call on eye of Ra was because he was depowered). Your claim was that it showed he had a proclivity toward physical reaction. Of course that isn't the truth since his use of the physical was completely unnatural because he didn't have access to his normal abilities. I also showed another few scans of him completely depowered in combat training. He showed great reaction without the benefits of most of his senses, that frankly would be above peak human (reacting to multiple threats while blinded definitely). Add in his normal senses that are part of his powers and he obviously reacts faster. I also showed when he was blasted throwing a shield up instantly, as well as becoming intangible when he was about to be crushed in an instant. You choose to ignore them and read what you will into it that's fine. I've yet to see any proof from you of any claim. So you compared him to Bullseye from a period when he had absolutely no internal power, and yet expect him to not be greater when he has those powers and sees in a much greater way, and only has to think to react rather than rely on a physical action. If Spiderman didn't have his danger sense he'd have been dead long ago even with his speed. His reactions are physical and rely on his speed Arion's only rely on his thinking a defense. I've already shown Arion's sense to be much greater. Even with only peak human reactions shown from periods when he could only use physical reactions I have shown him to be up to the task. From a period when he's powered and has a sense much greater than Spiderman and simply has to think to react COME ON, you can't possibly honestly believe that he's going to struggle here. He's going to be aware of the danger of a blast the moment BB takes aim and as he fires Arion shields. It's a NO BRAINER.
Have another look at the scans of him controlling wind. His control is so absolute that the wind currents could pick up his enemies but blow harmlessly by his allies. he could simply leave the vibrations of Klaw behind. How can sound travel through his shields exactly? They aren't particles they are force. Besides which i could simply have Comet cut loose as You've seen in one of his scans and vaporize the air within the barrier.
I have responded to every one of your queries while you haven't to mine. the only one I didn't respond to was to get the scans of Arion powered in the underground lairs of the undermen by camp fires and light other than stars, or in Darkworld where there are no stars. The reason was that it was no longer necessary with the change of environment. Since I now have an environment where I control the main medium that sound ( a key aspect to ALL your team) travels through and can cut off all other mediums I don't even need to worry about Dazzlers light.
|
|
Beatboks
Team Buster Ledger
Posts: 2,206
|
Post by Beatboks on Mar 18, 2012 20:53:15 GMT -5
Dedman I'm feeling the need to jump back into this since there's nothing happening on the other thread. I really want to see at least one battle in a tournament (aside from the two from K4tz's merc/assassin tourney ages ago) do you have any more arguments or should we call 4 voting (if anyone comes)
|
|
|
Post by DedmanWalkin on Mar 18, 2012 21:15:01 GMT -5
I believe I had some potential arguments but have since forgotten them. I'll reread through the thread and attempt to remember them. Give me some time and I'll see what I can come up with.
|
|
Beatboks
Team Buster Ledger
Posts: 2,206
|
Post by Beatboks on Mar 18, 2012 21:23:07 GMT -5
Cool, I'd like to show a tourney battle can finish on this site if at all possible
|
|
Beatboks
Team Buster Ledger
Posts: 2,206
|
Post by Beatboks on Aug 5, 2012 6:52:52 GMT -5
one more for sherlock to see.
Do you know how long it took me to find these??? ;D
|
|