Beatboks
Team Buster Ledger
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Post by Beatboks on Jan 31, 2012 7:17:02 GMT -5
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Post by DedmanWalkin on Jan 31, 2012 18:29:25 GMT -5
Being able to call on light from every star in the heavens means he is effectively accelerating light to faster that then speed of light from lightyears away. That level of energy manipulation is well above Vulcan, who is the limit for energy manipulation.
Black Hood won't have his motorcycle here anyways so that feat is immaterial.
All you have really shown is that he has power of stars and starlight but not light in general. There is a difference between the two. Also, Lasers are significantly different from normal light. Even if we accept that he can also deal with non-starlight and lasers, all you have shown is that he can draw them into his Sun Gem which would still leave his allies blind and he himself as that much light coming to him would cause any light trying to reach his eyes to refract. He'll have effectively blinded himself and his teammates.
We can cure certain types of Blindness now so without knowing the hows and whys of that man's blindness we can't be sure of what he did exactly. Also, just because he cured it once it does not mean that that man is now immune to blindness.
If you look at the picture, that Subman was clearly within view of Arion at the time. All that is, is an awareness feat. Most street levelers could do that. He did fail to notice the entire army of Submen surrounding them until they were in plain view. If his senses work like Spider-man's Spider Sense then I have already 'blinded' that sense as well. Sandman, of all people, figured out that if you are everywhere around Spider-man, he can't discern where the danger is coming from. MateKlaw will have already been doing that during he and DaneShriek's manipulation. You see MateKlaw can exist as sound in multiple places at the same time effectively duplicating himself. He only need appear in his humanoid form when he needs to do so. How did you think MateKlaw and DaneShriek were watching your team? MateKlaw has many sound constructs all around you watching and relaying information.
Now as to the Eye of Ra, I need an upper limit on it. How much danger does it show him? Or does it simply show him the danger he targets. For example, let's say that he is in a city with an average amount of people in it. 20 of them want to kill him but are not yet in range of him only 4 are in range to actually kill him. Does the Eye of Ra reveal only the 4 or all 20 despite 16 of them not being a direct threat to him right now? Essentially I am asking about how far in the future can the Eye of Ra see. Also, every scan shown so far seems to require him to target the general location of the danger. Is this true?
How long have the Guardians of the Universe existed? Since the beginning of time I believe they have existed. But in just 10 centuries, they somehow all died out. The simple fact is that nothing is forever so it is very possible that the Threads have stopped existing or their power has diminished to nearly nothing in the future. In 1659, he needed other people's magic to get him to Superman's time.
Also, I just read that AIM (Advanced Idea Mechanics) modified Klaw to be able to function in a vacuum and even be uploaded to the internet. Seems like that vacuum bubble won't exactly work here. I can just upload MateKlaw into Attilan's computers and duplicate him as many times as I need. Heck, DaneShriek's suit is advanced enough that I could upload it into him if necessary.
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Post by Dane on Jan 31, 2012 21:34:15 GMT -5
nooope, already said only oxygen/gravity is turned on for the city. Stop talking crap.
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Beatboks
Team Buster Ledger
Posts: 2,206
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Post by Beatboks on Feb 1, 2012 0:42:28 GMT -5
I already said that that was a scan that would have to be dropped in level. I said those scans ( that one of him calling the stars and the one of him glowing from all the dates in the heavens power were the same issue- from one of the two times he was uber powered).
He is powered by all and any light and can use it all. That was why when his brother trapped him in a dark dungeon he became powerless. It had to be completely dark for him to loose his source of power. Strong light is going to be his to wield. I only quickly skimmed the first few issues of his 82 run for those light scans
His normal sense is I suppose much like Spidermans danger sense. The difference is that Spidey can't than call on a more focused way of refining it. That would still mean he will know of an imminent attack vaguely and throw up a shield all around. As shown his shields can redirect the attack back where it came from.
When I get home from work I'll get more scans of BH fighting powered villains without his bike ( though personally I still see him having it) like all street legalese he's managed to save his more powerful enemies many times. Let's not forget Dazzler will be attacking an illusion. Your team unlike mine doesn't have a way of perceiving what is and isn't illusion.
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Beatboks
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Post by Beatboks on Feb 1, 2012 0:59:41 GMT -5
What I meant by the sense is he has a sense of danger near him that I have shown now in two scans ( both before he calls on the eye of Ra). the eye of Ra is more a spell of all seeing, having sensed something vaguely he uses it to see it fully. He has used it to find hidden bases the whereabouts of enemy, the capabilities of opposing forces ( numbers strength armament etc).
Oh as for the Guardians etc they aren't around in the 30th cent but their power rings have been used in that time.'plus I have also already mentioned that his powerlevel has been up and down many times. I stated in the thread I gave you alink to and here ( I believe) that he has been depowered several times. He always gets the power back, and I have stated which powerlevel I'm taking excluding his two periods of peak power level ( both only lasting two issues so hardly a consistent level). The inconsistency of these levels is why I ranked him 18 ( IIRC) in creators mystic grid.
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Beatboks
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Post by Beatboks on Feb 1, 2012 3:30:41 GMT -5
Just had a quick look through the set up thread rules. 1. Arion is my miscelaineois not my blaster. Misc is limited to levels of the powerhouse. Since Blackbolt can't have blasts greater than Superman as per rules and Superman can take and endure other Kryptonian heat vision there is no reason that Arions shields won't hold even when just surrounding the team for an assault of unknown direction based just on his normal danger sense. So ther is no way your initial assault can do what you want. His shields as shown can send attack back against there source that combined with a dual attack from comet will see BB falter. 2. As Dazzler is also your Misc her ability to energy project is likewise limited. However you look at the high end feats of Arion anything Dazzler can dish out in this battle is equal to whatever limit Arion is capped at. As you said in that scan he could speed light he could therefore just as easily change it's frequency and therefore color to be in the invisible spectrum. As both are likewise capped and by your own admission the scans I've shown are beyond the capped level so capped he will be able to deal with Dazzlers level that at most is also capped at same. I won't give anymore scans for Arion after all I've offered more than enough to support my case on him. BH hood scans later Tonight
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Beatboks
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Post by Beatboks on Feb 1, 2012 7:47:41 GMT -5
As soon as i find my copy of this issue www.comicvine.com/blue-ribbon-comics-/37-24538/ I'll have some feats for BH dodging blasts. I've got one of bullet timing from BH 1 (which is currently the only solo issue i can fins. it's surprisingly hard to find a battle in the Mighty Crusaders where he isn't on his bike. Here is Kip dodging automatic gunfire (sorry for the image quality don't know why it's that bad the page is faded but not that much) www.comicvine.com/myvine/beatboks1/black-hood/108-576977/bh_dodges_aoutomatic_gunfire/105-2183391/Now I know deadman is going to come back with how much faster light is that bullets (sped of sound to light etc) BUT Dazzler has no greater speed than the hood with the uzi. She isn't physically enhanced so she wont aim any quicker, and lets be honest every street leveler who dodges gunfire really dodges the aim. That combined with the fact that she wont have aimed originally at the TRUE intended targets direction. Remember initial strategy (now with revised additions) Arion sensing imminent danger throws up a shield in defense (which will hold against BB's assault as they are equally limited ) and casts a spell of intangibility and one of illusion. As a result of intangibility they are no longer where they were attacked, as a result of the illusion they appear to be. The enemy press that attack or Arion could just let them think they've won. While Comet is throwing up an enhancement to BH sonic device or simply creating an electric stun disk to short the circuitry of Shriek's outfit the others prepare for the full on assault from hiding. After BH has fired a few gas grenades, followed by flash bangs from his Pepperbox, the likelihood of anyone in your team drawing a bead on anyone in mine will be low. Dodging your teams attacks would be quite easy. It will be your team disoriented and on the back foot not mine from being blinded as my team will have been on the other side of the wall they passed through while intangible when the blinding light show is being pushed out by dazzler. No need for Arion to waste any energy shielding or altering the light at all. Having sensed the danger present and reacted (in a way I've already shown him to do in several scans ) from an attack from an unknown direction. Arion will have the time needed to use the Eye of Ra to focus to get all the information he needs about his adversaries before attacking. In only a few moments My team is now one prepped fighting a team who has been lead to believe they have already won.
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Post by DedmanWalkin on Feb 2, 2012 2:33:09 GMT -5
Attilan is space ship, Dane. This means that its environmental controls (Air, Gravity, Heat and such) would be run by a powerful computer capable of retrieving information from sensors place in every section of the city. Given that Attilan is also host to the Inhumans, its environmental controls would need to also be able to be flexible enough to allow for the unique physiology of each and every Inhuman who vary quite greatly. Simply put, even with just the basics online, there would also be an incredibly powerful computer online. Even then, my very next statement in that post suggests a back up should this be necessary.
You have yet to show me that he is powered by any and all light. He has a SUN gem on his chest, every feat of manipulating light you have shown me is SUNLIGHT. Magic is very specific when it comes to wording and light. For instance, Vampires are only killed by sunlight but not moonlight which is just sunlight reflected off the moon. Magic makes that much of a distinction. Why would locking him away in a dark dungeon in anyway weaken him if he can manipulate light like you say he can? He could simply grab any light and and direct it to him.
So if his Danger Sense functions like Spider-man's Spider Sense, then it will be effectively blinded by MateKlaw's multiple sound constructs warning him of danger all around him. He won't be able to sense any danger beyond the multiple sound constructs all around him just like Sandman did to Spider-man to disappear from his Spider Sense. So far, I can nullify your Danger Sense, deafen your hearing, and blind your sight. Still think I can't sneak NeXus Bolt into destruction range?
Answer my question, is his Eye of Ra a targeted spell or does it simply reveal all possible threats to him? Would it reveal all 20 or only the four who are capable of menacing him now?
My team can perceive what is and what isn't an illusion. Did you forget that I said that Klaw often fights Sue Storm, the Invisible Woman? What is that she does again? She becomes imperceptible except for that pesky heartbeat of hers which continues lubdubbing completely revealing her position. The fact is that once MateKlaw detects two sets of enemy heartbeats he'll know that you are using illusions and will know exactly where your team is. Unless you can hide all sound that you are generating, you can't ever hide from my team. Also, as I have said multiple times, your Illusions will be facing my Illusions not my team because like your team they will have fled to somewhere else.
The Guardian's rings do indeed exist in the 30th century but their power is vastly weakened to the point that Sodam Yat was sitting and waiting for their users to be killed as they ran out of the stored energy. How is this any different from
We need a ruling from Dane as to what Arion's specific limits are. His rules seem to suggest that only the Powerhouse can be above 100 tons, Street Leveler must be street level, only the Blaster may be at Rank 17. We need to know what Dane intended as the upper limit for the Wildcard. Also, you have not shown that he has any more light manipulation abilities beyond drawing in sunlight.
I can create a forcefield and become immune to every weapon Blackhood can fire at her. I can then create multiple holograms of me that will confuse Black Hood. Then I can create a light refracting field and become invisible, sneak around behind Black Hood and then shoot him in the back of the head with a microwave energy laser. Simply put, I will murder the fuck out of Black Hood, he stands exactly 0 chance of doing anything but slowing me down. None of your team can communicate, Comet won't know to build anything as everything your team says disappears as it leaves their mouth. Also, a sonic or stun disk won't do crap to Shriek, Batman's special Batarang pierced his suit at just the right time to cause it to backfire. Terry has the advantage of wearing a suit that increases his speed, agility, durability, and strength to superhuman levels, does Black Hood have Superhuman Speed? But again, this is all moot as I don't intend to directly fight any of your team members until I kill Arion.
You have made a lot of hay as to why my team would even pursue the strategy I have set forth. Let me bring up one interesting point. Black Bolt can unleash his full power with but a thought, how long does it take for Arion to get his shields up or caste his simultaneous spells of intangibility and illusion? Arion has what appears to be standard human reaction time whereas Black Bolt has standard Inhuman reaction time which is superior to human reaction time. In fact, Black Bolt's power is linked to his speech center but he need not actually say anything like he did when he killed Apocalypse which means he simply need think of saying something and a cascade of destructive energy will erupt across the land destroying half of the city. Since Black Bolt is faster faster than Arion, he kills your entire team before they can even react. That is what happens should I go for a more direct attack.
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Post by Dane on Feb 2, 2012 3:31:51 GMT -5
As usual, you focus on details without seeing the whole picture.
As of now, your battle will instead take place on a battle world that exists in a universe of my own creation. It will take place in a remote valley on the planet which has very little foliage and no intelligent life of any kind. The battle world is similar to Earth in terms of gravity, air, temperature, etc and it orbits a star very similar to ours. You may not destroy the battle world. Through a machination of my own, all magical deities and power sources from all other universes are accessible as they would be through any other incarnation of Earth in any other universe.
The big picture is: if you keep pulling out obvious troll backdoors I'll just keep rewriting the rules to negate it. After all these years you still don't seem to understand if you do something outside the rules, I will just change the rules.
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Beatboks
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Post by Beatboks on Feb 2, 2012 5:07:38 GMT -5
1. Arion is powered by all light, not that it matters any longer. When he was trapped in the dungeon he managed to use the last spark of his power to light a torch (his power having been used up almost to it's last in the battle that he and his Brother Garn fought an entity after which his brother struck him and placed him in the dungeon to ensure he couldn't re-charge). From that torch his sun gen gained a little color, but it wasn't enough strength to break free. he was also powered by the torches and camp fires of the under worlders when he was seeking the path through the earth to Darkworld, and by the light in that dimension which has no stars. His danger sense is somewhat better than that of spider man. He has intuitions as well as the sense of actual danger. www.comicvine.com/myvine/beatboks1/arion-lord-high-mage-of-atlantis/108-579344/arion_s_senses_a_little_more_atute_than_just_danger/105-2184794/ aside from that scan he was also able to know which way to go when he and his king were fleeing Atlantis after Garn conquered it to attain an army (referred to in that very scan). The Eye of Ra can be both targeted or broad, it depends really on what it is he's after. If he has sensed danger all around he's going to be after a broad look isn't he. Secondly even if his senses were so limited he unlike Spiderman isn't relying on simply dodging the danger. He can throw up a shield all around him. therefore if he senses danger all around he's got a defense all around. Plus he has several means of simply getting out of the way of the danger completely( Intagibility to pass through the valley to another area or just a vortex to somewhere else). with the use of a vortex in this way he could be miles away where Klaw wont sense any other sound. or he could simply use his abilities to ensure there is no second sound anyway, or a third or fourth sound. Since his broad followed by focus use of the Eye of Ra will allow him to know what Klaw is capable of there are many options open to him. Oh and how exactly do they flee to somewhere else and still mount a surprise attack HMMM? They have to be there for that part. Since they will believe the attack has been completely successful, battle (as far as their concerned ) over- until that is they get surprise attacked, by an an enemy they already believed vanquished. We already have the ruling from Dane but since your choosing to ignore it let me put it up for you. In his own words from the opening post of set up round Utility Can be used as a wildcard/random sort of character. Basically someone who can turn the tide of battle in unconventional ways. Physical stats may not exceed 100 ton range. Try to be creative. From his response to you after choosing Black bolt as your powerhouse As I said, you can't use Black Bolt as a Powerhouse. It's not actually up for discussion. The rule is pretty clear: "May not be considered a large-scale energy manipulator or have any significant powers beyond physical attributes, flight, or energy blasts."
You can still use Black Bolt, but you won't get his energy/matter manipulation. Only the physical stats, flight and energy projection up to the power of Superman's heat vision. Not how you personally think his heat vision should work. Pretty clear in my opinion. Your energy output is limited to the energy level of Superman's heat vision. Arion as My utility being likewise limited has the same. ergo his shields will stand up to your blasts. Ruling done. All your force fields are relying on your initial surprise strike working (which wont ) to capitalize on surprise you wont get. Surprise that will be mine when a team you think dead attacks out of no where (starting with BH's gas grenades making it hard for Dazzler to even focus on force fields etc. What ever it was Terry managed to do Comet is certainly quick enough to do as well (since no technology around changes original strat') As for communicate, limited imagination much. I have a guy capable of any type of illusion. Why the hell would I be limited to sound. I'm not going to be blinded since we wont even be around when the blinding light hits, and if it were can easily deal with it. www.comicvine.com/myvine/beatboks1/arion-lord-high-mage-of-atlantis/108-579344/2184808-arion_image/105-2184809/ or he could simply make the eye show all the team everything for efficiency. Not that we are on a planet Arion can even more easily deal with Klaw as his control over the elements and weather can make him vacate the air around him causing a void (that same control will also mean be why he cant detect Arion's illusions since he can stop sound from carrying with no air for it to move through) . Jaguar can attack from beneath www.comicvine.com/myvine/beatboks1/jaguar/108-576979/pep150_016/105-2167034/ Arion is the son of two Atlantian god's he was born 10,000 years before the ice age and is still alive. I wouldn't call him human. he was able to manipulate his grand daughters DNA to give her Kryptonian level powers (in that time line/ variation of history- which since her son is still magic on last showing still exists somewhere). I would say we can safely say his reactions will match. You've already seen the scans of it happening instantly.
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Post by Dane on Feb 2, 2012 8:40:21 GMT -5
ok, here we go.
Utility Can be used as a wildcard/random sort of character. Basically someone who can turn the tide of battle in unconventional ways. Physical stats may not exceed 100 ton range. Try to be creative.
ok, I haven't written it here but the intention is that their blasting power is set to rank 17 regardless of their abilities. Doctor Strange is a great utility for example because he has many, many spells with a variety of effects. However, his energy manipulation of magical forces doesn't necessarily exceed Vulcan for the vast majority of his spells. Something like Crimson Bands of Cyttorak can constrict, bind and seek out enemies across a great distance. It has more applications than just a basic energy blast. Now Vulcan can't or hasn't used his powers in any way like that afaik, but that doesn't stop a rank 17 energy manipulator from doing it. However, Doctor Strange can produce enormous magical energy blasts on his own. For the purposes of not having galaxy busters in the scenario, even Doctor Strange would have his raw output capped.
Arion will work very similarly. Most of his 'magical utility' spells won't require greater energy manipulation than rank 17. However, if it does he can't use them. It's not a case of being limited to only the kinds of energy uses that Vulcan can. Just in terms of raw power output.
It's up to you guys to debate whether or not certain spells will exceed rank 17. Keep in mind it is a tournament and people will vote on the credibility and decisiveness of your arguments. It's not for me to decide who would win. I have my opinions as most do, but it up to you both to sway that.
I would also like to remind you Dedman, as I told you in the original thread: Black Bolt would have been a much better utility because he would have had his full range of powers available to him. He will not have high end energy manip or matter manip here, only blasting power. Superman is the limit for powerhouses.
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Beatboks
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Post by Beatboks on Feb 2, 2012 9:21:55 GMT -5
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Post by Dane on Feb 2, 2012 9:52:28 GMT -5
@beatboks yeah, well it's up to you guys to debate how significant the difference between rank 17 and 18 is. The limitation is just there so someone couldn't just pick Dormammu and stomp everyone.
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Post by DedmanWalkin on Feb 2, 2012 18:55:00 GMT -5
Nothing I have stated is a troll backdoor, Dane. You stated that the environmental controls were the only thing active. A troll backdoor would have been for my team to go to the power core of Attilan, use Black Bolt's voice and access codes to bring it online and shoot it into a black hole but eject out before it got there. I had considered any number of strategies involving manipulation of the systems of Attilan that I could achieve since I have both the leader of Attilan and its primary power source on my team. I was making an attempt to stay within your rules. I don't know why you would change it as Shriek's suit still provides me a means to do exactly what I said I would do with Attilan's computers at even greater levels than Attilan's computers could since his suit is essentially designed to do exactly what I described.
As there is a new environment, my strategy will have to change as my strategy was heavily reliant on the environment. I'll have to think of a new strategy so I'll be back.
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Beatboks
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Post by Beatboks on Feb 2, 2012 18:56:11 GMT -5
Dane BTW thanks, having picked these guys in my team I've re-read a shit load of old comics that I haven't in quite some time. I completely forgot, How much I loved Arion, Comet and Black Hood. Having done so now i see at least three characters that I have to both throw up a respect thread for and a wiki page on our Wiki site. Since I doubt anyone else could put up 1/2 as much info as me.
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Post by Dane on Feb 2, 2012 23:44:04 GMT -5
@dedman It was made to be a neutral environment. Not to give one person an advantage over another.
@beatboks Sounds good man, Arion seems like a really cool character. I haven't seen Comet or Black Hood in comics but they sound cool too.
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Beatboks
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Post by Beatboks on Feb 5, 2012 3:55:03 GMT -5
As there is a new environment, my strategy will have to change as my strategy was heavily reliant on the environment. I'll have to think of a new strategy so I'll be back. It can't be that hard Dedman. I mean the environment wasn't that big an advantage. Let's face it I've got the weakest powerhouse of all picks by quite a bit (strength level etc probably more around Thing that Supes). Also on the 17/18 of Arion. As I'm the one who ranked his as such. just like to point out that I actually ranked him 17 when the many colored threads power only and 18 when Star (as in all stars) powered. Since I already said that the couple of scans I showed of him at that level would have to be limited. it's only a few scans that are actually above the rules. In all honestly of his original rune of 35 issues it's a grand total of 6 that he was at that peak level (plus the later Immortal Arion Mini). that was why I originally ranked him 17.5 since there were very limited showings of him above it.
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Post by DedmanWalkin on Feb 5, 2012 11:55:34 GMT -5
I have just been busy with work and school and such, but I might be able to get another post up after work today.
I am not worried about Comet, Blackhood, and Jaguar, they are pretty much nonentities in this match as every person on my team could easily take the down. Arion is, and always has been, the only reason why my team could not just effortlessly trounce your team.
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Beatboks
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Post by Beatboks on Feb 5, 2012 19:00:27 GMT -5
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Post by DedmanWalkin on Feb 7, 2012 1:24:21 GMT -5
I must really thank Dane for switching the environment, it provided me with 2 distinct advantages that the Attilan on the Moon did not. Mainly, this planet has no Vibranium onboard so MateKlaw is practically unkillable here.
New environment, new strategy:
As this planet is roughly Earth, I don't have to worry about risking my team to oxygen loss due to destruction of the blue zone. In this case, NeXus Bolt goes with a full power blast as quickly as he can.
Arion is a Pre-Cataclysm Atlantean, there are no real differences between a Pre-Cataclysm Atlantean and a Human. None of the showings you have shown of him, show him being anything beyond a standard human in terms of reaction time. NeXus Bolt is an Inhuman which means that by default he has Superhuman Reaction Time which functions well enough for him to fight Gladiator. Now considering his superior reaction time and his ability to use his power at the speed of thought, NeXus Bolt can put out his full power before Arion's Danger Sense will have told him to cast a spell much less before he could raise any shields or become intangible. Your entire team is obliterated before anyone can defend themselves.
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