spidey_17
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With Great Power Comes Great.... suffering?
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Post by spidey_17 on Jun 4, 2011 21:05:41 GMT -5
I think spidey should be a 12? Anyone agrees, disagrees??
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Beatboks
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Post by Beatboks on Jun 5, 2011 0:15:20 GMT -5
Steele ( John Henry Irons) 20 Atom (Ray Palmer) 21 Chief (Niles Caulder) 21 or 22 Dr Light (Kymio) 21
I would also say the Stranger is 29, he's shown multiple instances of being aware of things beyond the level of other cosmic/celestial level beings. I wouldn't go as far as saying omniscient but definitely nigh omniscient. There have after all been the occasional thing that he hasn't been fully aware of, but he was for example able to "sense" the Hector Dr Fate watching him when no other mystic could
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Beatboks
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Post by Beatboks on Jun 5, 2011 6:37:22 GMT -5
I should quantify that last statement about the Stranger. Since he's aware of how things work on a much higher level than for example the Guardians, new God's and other "celestial" type powers (as in knowing and understanding the higher powers, their function and how they work - which has been depicted many times). Plus he has the ability to perceive things that others wouldn't (like the watching eye of Hector Hall who was able to hide it from other seemingly equally powered beings). Add to which as he's explained a few times, it's his role to appear to all souls in their hour of greatest need to help them choose their path (which would mean he would have to KNOW when every soul's darkest hour is so know everything about every soul).
Than he has to be more intelligent than the Guardians etc by a reasonable measure. I'd Also say that Galactus should move down to 29. 30 should be reserved for the LT, OAA, and Presence. My opinion some one else can make the call.
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creator
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Post by creator on Jun 5, 2011 7:16:27 GMT -5
According to what they say about one another, Xavier is smarter than Beast. But if we go by feats such as Beast doing literally everything in the lab and workshop from the early days until current, Beast has Xavier pretty soundly beaten. He even makes improvements on Xavier's previous designs such as Cerebro to Cerebra, the jets, etc. It could be the difference between Xavier being more creative, coming up with initil concepts while Beast is smarter in streamlining / making improvements. Do you think they should be seperated ?
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Post by creator on Jun 5, 2011 7:18:07 GMT -5
I think spidey should be a 12? Anyone agrees, disagrees?? Based on the few showings I recall, I don't think he warrants a 12 but if you can show otherwise, I would gladly reconsider.
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creator
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Post by creator on Jun 5, 2011 7:27:19 GMT -5
Steele ( John Henry Irons) 20 Atom (Ray Palmer) 21 Chief (Niles Caulder) 21 or 22 Dr Light (Kymio) 21 I would also say the Stranger is 29, he's shown multiple instances of being aware of things beyond the level of other cosmic/celestial level beings. I wouldn't go as far as saying omniscient but definitely nigh omniscient. There have after all been the occasional thing that he hasn't been fully aware of, but he was for example able to "sense" the Hector Dr Fate watching him when no other mystic could How would you say that these 4 individuals rank against Batman, Mr Terric, Hank Pym and Tony Stark who are all in the same area of the grid ? I should have been clearer with the Stranger, I meant the Marvel version. I will refer to the DC version as Phantom Stranger.
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creator
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Post by creator on Jun 5, 2011 7:41:16 GMT -5
I'd Also say that Galactus should move down to 29. 30 should be reserved for the LT, OAA, and Presence. My opinion some one else can make the call. It might be a good time to remind everyone that the rank of 30 will gather together a group of cosmic beings that will eventually be seperated out on a Tier list (5 tiers in all) for truely cosmic heavy weights. So with that in mind, should Galactus, whose science and understanding of the universe and multiverse is immense, be a rank 30 ?
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Beatboks
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Post by Beatboks on Jun 5, 2011 8:16:11 GMT -5
Steele ( John Henry Irons) 20 Atom (Ray Palmer) 21 Chief (Niles Caulder) 21 or 22 Dr Light (Kymio) 21 I would also say the Stranger is 29, he's shown multiple instances of being aware of things beyond the level of other cosmic/celestial level beings. I wouldn't go as far as saying omniscient but definitely nigh omniscient. There have after all been the occasional thing that he hasn't been fully aware of, but he was for example able to "sense" the Hector Dr Fate watching him when no other mystic could How would you say that these 4 individuals rank against Batman, Mr Terric, Hank Pym and Tony Stark who are all in the same area of the grid ? I should have been clearer with the Stranger, I meant the Marvel version. I will refer to the DC version as Phantom Stranger. I would say Palmer is easily the intellectual equal of Pym, maybe a little better. Steel let's face it is meant to be DC's Stark, but a 2nd rate one by a little (not meaning that in a bad way, I love the character. but where Stark is a tactical mind as well as engineering and business John is just engineering and physics). The two of them have solved some pretty big scientific problems for the JLA, and aside from Ted Kord are the only ones who can keep up with Lex on the science of things in major world threats. Caulder is a world renowned scientist in more fields than a lot. In medicine he's well known enough to have been called in to try and deal with the unknown radiation being given off by Negative man. His knowledge in robotics and cybernetics is without question (Robotman anyone). During the latest run of DP he was contacted by several scientists who were specialists in a field for assistance. Those fields varied from NASA and deep space to metalurgists, Geologist and oceanographers. They all seemed to treat his opinion as greater than their own (plus he was the one they were calling when they didn't have the answer). So I'd say Caulder is scientifically not far behind Lex ( though he is further behind him in tactics he'd match him in manipulation on latest retcons). Kymio now that i htink of it is only a 20, brilliant but only in a few scientific fields.
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spidey_17
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Post by spidey_17 on Jun 5, 2011 8:18:50 GMT -5
I think spidey should be a 12? Anyone agrees, disagrees?? Based on the few showings I recall, I don't think he warrants a 12 but if you can show otherwise, I would gladly reconsider. Well, he has been able to made his webbing and several other gadgets ( like spider-tracers, web shooters etc.. ) from the age of 15. That alone shows great intellect. In Vulture's first appearance( ASM #2 ), IIRC Spidey made a device( an anti-magnetic inverter ) in order to beat him. Obviously he was still 15 and manage to make such a device. In his most recent showings, he had made a stealth suit that made him completely invisible and it could also protect him from sonic attacks. He has also created anti-metal...." spider- tracers"..lol, that were used to destroy Hobgoblin's sword. After that, he has created a bullet proof suit and he has also improved his webbing to the point that it could block all radio frequencies, something the prevent Massacre( a new villain ) to kill some people with bombs. And of course let's not forget that Iron-man has commented his intellect before. He has even be impressed that spidey's spider-tracers could not be detect by his armor. I think that's enough to put Peter in the extraordinary genius tier. Well, if not 12, at least we could put him in 11.
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Post by NexusOfLight on Jun 5, 2011 8:46:45 GMT -5
And there was that time where Doc Ock made some brain wave thing to control his octo-bots and Spidey shut if off by using his brain waves. Don't remember the details off hand, but I remember Ock was laughing at the thought of Spidey being smarter than him, and then when it happened, he was like "Whaaaattt?!" Good times. I personally feel Spidey's always been a lil' bit smarter than Octavius, if nothing other than the simple fact that he's always foiled his elaborate plans. Lemme find the scan. It was funny.
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spidey_17
The Unstoppable Ledgernaut
With Great Power Comes Great.... suffering?
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Post by spidey_17 on Jun 5, 2011 8:53:42 GMT -5
Ah, Amazing Spider-man #600. Great issue. Thanks NOL!! Btw, in ASM #648, when both Richards and Stark failed to find a way to stop Ock's bomb, spidey was the one that found a way to delay the explosion, giving time to Avengers to take the bomb away.
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Post by ckal on Jun 5, 2011 10:10:43 GMT -5
creator- Rank 30 for Big G makes sense to me.
I'd like to throw Blue Marvel into the ring. During his mini he showed some high levels of intelligence. His plan for defeating Anti-Man was something Reed thought was brilliant.
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Post by Erik-El on Jun 5, 2011 10:43:28 GMT -5
According to what they say about one another, Xavier is smarter than Beast. But if we go by feats such as Beast doing literally everything in the lab and workshop from the early days until current, Beast has Xavier pretty soundly beaten. He even makes improvements on Xavier's previous designs such as Cerebro to Cerebra, the jets, etc. It could be the difference between Xavier being more creative, coming up with initil concepts while Beast is smarter in streamlining / making improvements. Do you think they should be seperated ? I do think they should be separated but I just cannot decide who goes where. They both are brilliant in engineering and genetics but one is better by reputation while the other if we go by feats. Plus Beast has made his own unique inventions based purely on his own theories that Xavier never even thought of. Like his Phoenix prison.
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creator
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Post by creator on Jun 5, 2011 12:50:13 GMT -5
I would say Palmer is easily the intellectual equal of Pym, maybe a little better. Steel let's face it is meant to be DC's Stark, but a 2nd rate one by a little (not meaning that in a bad way, I love the character. but where Stark is a tactical mind as well as engineering and business John is just engineering and physics). The two of them have solved some pretty big scientific problems for the JLA, and aside from Ted Kord are the only ones who can keep up with Lex on the science of things in major world threats. Caulder is a world renowned scientist in more fields than a lot. In medicine he's well known enough to have been called in to try and deal with the unknown radiation being given off by Negative man. His knowledge in robotics and cybernetics is without question (Robotman anyone). During the latest run of DP he was contacted by several scientists who were specialists in a field for assistance. Those fields varied from NASA and deep space to metalurgists, Geologist and oceanographers. They all seemed to treat his opinion as greater than their own (plus he was the one they were calling when they didn't have the answer). So I'd say Caulder is scientifically not far behind Lex ( though he is further behind him in tactics he'd match him in manipulation on latest retcons). Kymio now that i htink of it is only a 20, brilliant but only in a few scientific fields. Ok. I'll add them at the suggested levels.
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creator
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Post by creator on Jun 5, 2011 12:55:44 GMT -5
Well, he has been able to made his webbing and several other gadgets ( like spider-tracers, web shooters etc.. ) from the age of 15. That alone shows great intellect. In Vulture's first appearance( ASM #2 ), IIRC Spidey made a device( an anti-magnetic inverter ) in order to beat him. Obviously he was still 15 and manage to make such a device. In his most recent showings, he had made a stealth suit that made him completely invisible and it could also protect him from sonic attacks. He has also created anti-metal...." spider- tracers"..lol, that were used to destroy Hobgoblin's sword. After that, he has created a bullet proof suit and he has also improved his webbing to the point that it could block all radio frequencies, something the prevent Massacre( a new villain ) to kill some people with bombs. And of course let's not forget that Iron-man has commented his intellect before. He has even be impressed that spidey's spider-tracers could not be detect by his armor. I think that's enough to put Peter in the extraordinary genius tier. Well, if not 12, at least we could put him in 11. And there was that time where Doc Ock made some brain wave thing to control his octo-bots and Spidey shut if off by using his brain waves. Don't remember the details off hand, but I remember Ock was laughing at the thought of Spidey being smarter than him, and then when it happened, he was like "Whaaaattt?!" Good times. I personally feel Spidey's always been a lil' bit smarter than Octavius, if nothing other than the simple fact that he's always foiled his elaborate plans. So based on this, you would both say Spidey is smarter than Doc Octopus ? And if so, do you rank Spidey at 12 and Doc Octopus at 12 or 11 ?
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Post by creator on Jun 5, 2011 12:56:58 GMT -5
I do think they should be separated but I just cannot decide who goes where. They both are brilliant in engineering and genetics but one is better by reputation while the other if we go by feats. Plus Beast has made his own unique inventions based purely on his own theories that Xavier never even thought of. Like his Phoenix prison. Lets put Hank higher based on feats.
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spidey_17
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Post by spidey_17 on Jun 5, 2011 12:57:41 GMT -5
I'm really not sure if spidey is smarter than ock, but would say that they should be equals or spidey at least should be at 11.
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creator
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Post by creator on Jun 5, 2011 13:04:19 GMT -5
creator- Rank 30 for Big G makes sense to me. I'd like to throw Blue Marvel into the ring. During his mini he showed some high levels of intelligence. His plan for defeating Anti-Man was something Reed thought was brilliant. I agree Big G at 30. If someone has a strong argument against we can always revisit. With the tech he was displaying in an old base from the 60's and his grasp of physics, then I think he should certainly have a high rating. His ideas with Anti-man however played to his particular expertise, antimatter. So for that reason I was thinking a rank 15 to start with. Do you think this is satisfactory ?
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Post by creator on Jun 5, 2011 13:05:24 GMT -5
I'm really not sure if spidey is smarter than ock, but would say that they should be equals or spidey at least should be at 11. I think I had him as an 11 already.
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Post by ckal on Jun 5, 2011 13:23:17 GMT -5
creator- Sounds good to me.
Is Bruce Wayne actually on the same level as Tony Stark and Hank Pym?
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