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Post by Erik-El on Oct 20, 2012 0:35:14 GMT -5
One feat is their fight together, where Slade said he had to get in her mind in order to win. Another feat is where Cain literally outraces a bullet. She was standing next to some guy and was facing an opponent leveling his gun at her. Once he fired, she jumped at him and knocked him out before the bullet could wiz by the guy she was previously standing next to. The guy was clearly just a marker so we could measure the feat and she did not move until after fired upon. So the reaction speed allowed her to dodge out of the way of a bullet, while at the same time racing towards it at a speed slightly greater than the bullet coming towards her. If that is not a crazy, pulling your hair out to understand it kind of feat, I don't know what is. Sounds very impressive. Stupid question, but can we find the scans ? I don't have scans anymore. I stopped debating so I don't need them. But CB here knows his shit and has the scans to back them up.
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Post by CitizenBane on Oct 20, 2012 8:04:28 GMT -5
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Post by Erik-El on Oct 20, 2012 12:39:20 GMT -5
CB why have you not made her respect thread?!
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Post by CitizenBane on Oct 20, 2012 13:14:16 GMT -5
Busy with other characters Currently doing an Authority respect thread. I'll get to Cass eventually.
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Post by Erik-El on Oct 20, 2012 13:20:13 GMT -5
You. Are. The. Man!
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creator
Team Buster Ledger
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Post by creator on Oct 20, 2012 14:04:59 GMT -5
Most of these feats sit at the rank 10 to 12 level. Can I suggest we put her in at rank 11 for now.
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Post by CitizenBane on Oct 20, 2012 23:49:26 GMT -5
Fine by me. I think Cass is just the slightest bit slower than Slade and Drakon, but still fast enough to be in their tier.
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Post by CitizenBane on Oct 21, 2012 8:31:16 GMT -5
I am unsure of where Midnighter would land up on this grid. He has feats like kicking a tank round (which can move at speeds 5 or 6 times that of a bullet) back at the tank, deflecting a hail of bullets by whirling his staff around at high speeds and so on that would probably get him somewhere between 12 and 14, but he also has feats like outmaneuvering (at nearly point blank range) a living laser that could twist through the air to follow him (like Darkseid's Omega Beams) that would get him a much higher rank like 25 or something, if I'm interpreting the grid correctly.
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creator
Team Buster Ledger
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Post by creator on Oct 21, 2012 11:06:10 GMT -5
I am unsure of where Midnighter would land up on this grid. He has feats like kicking a tank round (which can move at speeds 5 or 6 times that of a bullet) back at the tank, deflecting a hail of bullets by whirling his staff around at high speeds and so on that would probably get him somewhere between 12 and 14, but he also has feats like outmaneuvering (at nearly point blank range) a living laser that could twist through the air to follow him (like Darkseid's Omega Beams) that would get him a much higher rank like 25 or something, if I'm interpreting the grid correctly. You are interpreting it correctly. I think we have to be a little pragmatic about the rankings, in that we also have people like Katanna parrying lasers with her sword. These kind of feats are far more uncommon for the character to perform (achieve) so I am tending to think that we go with the most common and what actually fits in with the character. Not trying to downplay the laser feat, but we don't know if the living laser actually processes sensory input at light speed and thus travelled at light speed. If you have the scan and more info about the source of the beam, we can review it in more detail. Back to th tank shell example, can we tell how far away it was shot from as rank 9 means dodging it from 50 ft. My gut feel is that Minighter should be in the same ball park as Spider-Man (but IMO slightly slower....but he could still be in the same rank). The problem with Midnighter is tat he knows where the attack is coming from with accuracy because he has un the simulations and knows before the 'trigger' is pulled. This makes his feats a little harder to quantify. However to fast moving objects like th shell, we know he needs to react with vast superhuman speed to time his block / dodge accordingly. If he didn't, he could not react to the incoming attack even if he knew it was coming. So he is most likely to be somewhere in the 10 to 14 ranks, but most likely at the 12 or 13 level. If you have some feats for him, put them up (or in the respect thread you mentioned).
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Post by Erik-El on Oct 21, 2012 12:46:23 GMT -5
Ah but Midnighter's battle computer could have just predicted where to kick. Has he fought characters on even ground that don't have super speed? I think Midnighter is a little harder to place since his battle computer gets to claim credit for most of what he does and it boarders on the illogical and impossible.
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Post by Strafe Prower on Oct 21, 2012 13:50:53 GMT -5
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Post by Strafe Prower on Oct 21, 2012 13:59:05 GMT -5
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Post by CitizenBane on Oct 21, 2012 14:47:26 GMT -5
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Team Buster Ledger
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Post by creator on Oct 21, 2012 20:22:09 GMT -5
Ah but Midnighter's battle computer could have just predicted where to kick. Has he fought characters on even ground that don't have super speed? I think Midnighter is a little harder to place since his battle computer gets to claim credit for most of what he does and it boarders on the illogical and impossible. I partially agree with you, but when dealing with high velocity objects you still need super fast reflexes. The reason is that despite knowing when you need to use your staff to parry the bullets, you sill need to complete the moves within a set time period. An example of this, which you can google and is on YouTube, is a man catching an arrow. The archer fires the arrow along a known trajectory, at a set time and the catcher has a finite period of time to close his hand about the arrow as it passes between the U shape formed by his hand. Now if the arrow was moving faster or the shaft length was shorter, the catcher would face an issue as he has a finite response time. He cannot begin to close his hand too early or he faces being injured. Closing his hand too late and he fails to catch the arrow. In much the same way, Midnighter is limited by his reaction speed, particularly when blocking multiple high speed projectiles. So to effectively utilize the knowledge provided by the battle computer, he still requires super fast reflexes.
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Post by creator on Oct 21, 2012 21:05:56 GMT -5
I looked at the respect thread and there are some other good examples I can try to rate. Looking at the ones above I would rate them as follows, Dodging the Black Hand: to be honest I struggle with one a little as I don't know the speed the hand travels at, it is very difficult to rate the feat. Does the hand travel at the speed of light, the speed of lightning, the speed of rail gun projectile or the speed of an assault rifle bullet. Th hand appears to be between 20' and 50' away. So it could be ranked as a 9, 12, 17 or 25 feat. Compared to his other feats (see below), I would say a rank 12 feats as i doubt he has a feat so far ahead of his other feats. Dodging the Lion: the lion does not appear to be much more than 10' away when it leaps at Creeper and I don't think the lion moves faster than a thrown fastball. So I would rate this as a rank 4 feat. Dodging gunfire: the thug begins to fire in the panel before the creeper appears to leap. The thug uses a smg and appears to be about 10' away. This old make it a rank 11 feat. So based on what we have seen, I think I would put him in rank 11.
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Post by Strafe Prower on Oct 21, 2012 22:25:42 GMT -5
I think 11 is pretty good for Creeper.
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Post by creator on Oct 22, 2012 21:33:13 GMT -5
I agree that the lamplighter laser dodging feat is quite impressive. In fact I struggle to rank this feat as Midnighter needs to be only faster than lamplighter's perception/reaction speed, as this speed is what therefore limits the movement speed of the light beam. As to the other feats, The tank shell is a rank 9 feat. The SMG blocking is a rank 11 feat. Dodging Apollo's heat vision is just reacting faster than Apollo and although he has a far higher reaction speed than a human, I don't think he is as fast as Midnighter. If I could gage Apollos reaction speed, I could rank the feat accordingly. Dodging the the shots from the Ballbuster: Midnighter looks to be 10' away from her. I cannot see a projectile from the gun. So it could well be some form of energy, maybe a plasma form, so it would move slower than even a lightning bolt (assuming I'm correct of course). So with that in mind, I would rank it for example purposes as a rail gun, so several times the speed of sound for projectile speed. With this assumption, the feat is rank 13. This fits in well because I did lots of calculations before for a feat that Thor performed, where he moved fast enough to blur and almost became invisible and that too was a rank 13 feat. So midnighters feat lower on the page with the after images is suggestive of a rank 12 / 13 feat. Thrown car: when you look at how far the lamp post ploughs in to the car and this was through the engine block (something I happen to know a lot about), the speed the car was traveling at would be over 80mph and I would put it probably over 100 mph. I am unsure of the distance between the combatants but considering Midnighter jumps to attack her, i figure it is around 20' or so. Considering the size of the object to dodge (it's size makes the feat harder), I would rate this feat as rank 6 feat. Blitzing the bad guy: if I recall correctly, the bad guy can fly real fast, emit energy beams from his eyes and some level of superhuman strength. However I don't recall him (them) displaying a high level of super human reaction speed. However saying that, even if he has slightly enhanced reaction speed, this would still be a rank 13 feat. So based on all of this, I would put Midnighter in at rank 13.
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Post by Erik-El on Oct 22, 2012 21:37:33 GMT -5
If the only requirement to be ranked a 13 is to move so fast that you are invisible to the naked eye, then Wolverine would qualify and I honestly don't think he is anywhere near 13.
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Post by Erik-El on Oct 22, 2012 21:43:58 GMT -5
Or maybe he is!
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Post by creator on Oct 22, 2012 21:58:35 GMT -5
1st feat: from the image I would say he had already sprung at the gunman, prior to him firing. In effect, she beat him to the punch. So I an not convinced its a 'clean' feat. 2nd feat: she really only needs to stay ahead of the woman firing the gun but let's say she has to dodge a bullet, it would be a at least a rank 8 feat. 3rd feat: the skateboard even after being kicked off is unlikely to be traveling more than 50mph. However she does delay in batting it aside. In fact it seems to be no more than 5' from her. So at best this is a rank 5 feat. 4th feat: taking the gun away while being caught flat footed like that is a rank 6 feat. 5th feat: she moves faster than the joker. I have not ranked his reaction speed but we know he is significantly faster than a normal man. Difficult to rank because of this. Based on this, I would say she is a least in rank 6.
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