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Post by DedmanWalkin on Jan 20, 2011 14:27:32 GMT -5
But that is what I have been saying all along, no one in the scans presented really have superhuman strength. Magic, Energy Manipulation, and Telekinesis are all more likely explanations for their supposed strength than actual strength. WW is not super strong, the gods that grant her their strength are. Likewise, MMH's powers can all be linked to high-level telekinesis not super strength. Both of these people refer to themselves as super strong but they are actually empowered. What I am saying is that no one featured in those scans can be said to have super strength, they have the ability to emulate super strength but they themselves simply do not have it. The Hulk or Doomsday have super strength as shown in their massive increase in size, density, and mass compared to a standard person of their race.
Superman's statement is as useless here as Hal's suggestion that he and Superman were the only ones "strong" enough to move a planet. Hal has normal human strength, his ring can manipulate energy allowing him to emulate super strength but he himself is not strong enough to move a planet.
I'm sorry if my analysis does not match up with yours but it seems quite foolish to suggest that moving a planet is a strength feat.
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Silver
The Unstoppable Ledgernaut
The Fourth Precept
Posts: 4,654
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Post by Silver on Jan 20, 2011 18:48:42 GMT -5
But that is what I have been saying all along, no one in the scans presented really have superhuman strength. Magic, Energy Manipulation, and Telekinesis are all more likely explanations for their supposed strength than actual strength. WW is not super strong, the gods that grant her their strength are. Likewise, MMH's powers can all be linked to high-level telekinesis not super strength. Both of these people refer to themselves as super strong but they are actually empowered. What I am saying is that no one featured in those scans can be said to have super strength, they have the ability to emulate super strength but they themselves simply do not have it. The Hulk or Doomsday have super strength as shown in their massive increase in size, density, and mass compared to a standard person of their race. .....What? Martians' physical stats have nothing to do with their psionics. They are completely unrelated. Superman does not even have energy manipulation. He has energy absorption, which is used to supercharge his cells to grant greater physicality. Wonder Woman or Captain Marvel's powers are derived from magic; they are not mystical spells. If they had to conjure magical energies to in order to enhance their strength or durability, then this might be a viable explanation. But such is not the case. By empowerment from their respective magical sources, they are imbued with super strength. So, no, this is just not true. Superman's statement is as useless here as Hal's suggestion that he and Superman were the only ones "strong" enough to move a planet. Hal has normal human strength, his ring can manipulate energy allowing him to emulate super strength but he himself is not strong enough to move a planet. I'm sorry if my analysis does not match up with yours but it seems quite foolish to suggest that moving a planet is a strength feat. Hal's stating that he and Supes are the only ones strong enough to move a planet and Supes stating that brute strength to accomplish this feat are completely different. Hal is suggesting that they are the only ones capable of moving a planet. Clark is saying what is required to move a planet. You are drawing a similarity between two statements when the context of them is different and when Superman's use of the word "strength" was specified as brute strength. (This is not even addressing that Hal/Supes' moving the earth is non-canon.) Brute strength is needed to move a celestial body. This is what Superman said. If the writer clarified that in particular through a character quote, then obviously that was the intention behind it. If the character says he used brute strength to manage a given feat, then he used brute strength to manage a given feat.
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Post by DedmanWalkin on Jan 21, 2011 0:30:32 GMT -5
The Martian's physical stats have everything to do with psionics as he is a very powerful psionic. Consider this, he can change his density, move things via telekinesis, fire concussive blasts, shape-shift and in the future he'll even inhabit Mars itself. All of these things speak to Fire as a weakness was built into them to control them, otherwise they would be unstoppable.
Captain Marvel and WW's powers are directly from the gods themselves. When they lift something, it is not with their strength but with whichever god is granting them the strength. As has been shown, the gods that empower them also watch over them and essentially do all the heavy lifting through them.
Superman absorbs yellow sun radiation and converts it into heat beams, forcefields, and cold breath. How is that not energy manipulation? Heck, his red/blue forms show direct energy manipulation powers and they both come from Superman. How anyone thinks he is not an energy manipulator is beyond me. Cyclops is an energy manipulator and all he does is convert sunlight into energy beams similar to if not exactly like Superman.
So what Hal meant and what he said were two different things? I also already said that. Supes could have meant hard work but because he said teamwork before hand he didn't want to repeat work. Heck, the writer could have meant the same thing and also did not want to repeat work twice in the same sentence. Word repetition is something that good writers like Clark would avoid. As I said, his words are useless as proof.
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Silver
The Unstoppable Ledgernaut
The Fourth Precept
Posts: 4,654
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Post by Silver on Jan 21, 2011 5:41:00 GMT -5
The Martian's physical stats have everything to do with psionics as he is a very powerful psionic. Consider this, he can change his density, move things via telekinesis, fire concussive blasts, shape-shift and in the future he'll even inhabit Mars itself. All of these things speak to Fire as a weakness was built into them to control them, otherwise they would be unstoppable. Not really. Martian psionics are only related to their mental powers, nothing else. Their physical attributes, shape shifting, intangibility, heat vision, etc. are separate from it. He does not grant himself super strength by psionic energies. Captain Marvel and WW's powers are directly from the gods themselves. When they lift something, it is not with their strength but with whichever god is granting them the strength. As has been shown, the gods that empower them also watch over them and essentially do all the heavy lifting through them. The source of their power does not mean it is not theirs. If Diana lifts something, she herself may show signs of strain. If it were simply the gods empowering her that did the work for her, then she would feel no difficulty when performing physical tasks. The same applies for Captain Marvel. Superman absorbs yellow sun radiation and converts it into heat beams, forcefields, and cold breath. How is that not energy manipulation? Heck, his red/blue forms show direct energy manipulation powers and they both come from Superman. How anyone thinks he is not an energy manipulator is beyond me. Cyclops is an energy manipulator and all he does is convert sunlight into energy beams similar to if not exactly like Superman. How is this energy manipulation if these are not initiated consciously? Yellow sun radiation metabolizing into his cells is an event that takes place whether Superman wants it to or not. It would be energy manipulation if he could consciously channel the energies he absorbs into these purposes, but he never does. He may activate these powers purposefully (although his physical attributes are constantly operating), but he has no control over the sun radiation granting him flight or heat vision. These are simply side effects. He never chose them. Same for Cyclops. Just because he absorbs energy does not make him an energy manipulator. I honestly have no idea what the source of power has to do with the discussion in the first place. So what Hal meant and what he said were two different things? I also already said that. Supes could have meant hard work but because he said teamwork before hand he didn't want to repeat work. Heck, the writer could have meant the same thing and also did not want to repeat work twice in the same sentence. Word repetition is something that good writers like Clark would avoid. As I said, his words are useless as proof. Don't twist my words. Hal's meaning is different because of how he said it and the context used. What Superman said and what it means is obvious because of how he described it ( brute strength) and what the intention of his statement was (what power is needed to move the moon). Hal's statement had to do with a comparison between himself and Supes and all of the other JLA members. To be honest, you are not really making much sense. If you want to believe that Superman's statement is irrelevant (even though the situational application of his quote and the words describing it in further detail are obvious), fine. But you are not doing well to support that case by weakly loopholing the clear meaning.
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