spidey_17
The Unstoppable Ledgernaut
With Great Power Comes Great.... suffering?
Posts: 4,961
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Post by spidey_17 on Nov 14, 2010 23:30:20 GMT -5
I have read your reasons Nexus and they are pretty good. But it's difficult to enjoy a story when it shows a person completely out of character. I means, i don't hate OMD, but after the conversation i had with Crom, i have realized that it had many wrong things that if they were written well, OMD wouldn't exist, neither Pete would make a deal with the Devil, neither MJ( an important character in Pete's and spiderman's life ) would go away. Of course i has stated above, because of OMD, some good story arcs have been made and that's why i don't hate that arc. But obviously its not really enjoyable. =]
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Post by Mr. E. Liturazy on Nov 14, 2010 23:35:19 GMT -5
The story OMD is crap. End of story. Spider-Man is primarily a science fiction title and they use supernatural means to completely obliterate the most important section of his life. I do not think it was necessary to even do the story at all. Spider-Man was still obscenely popular even while being 'tied' to Mary Jane. I seriously think it was worse than the Clone Saga and that is saying something. That being said, I am over it. The stories since then have been awesome. I did think it was cool that Jessica Drew still remembered the way things were though because she was off-planet during OMD though. It was a nice touch. JMS, the same person who was writing ASM up until OMD established the possibility of mystic connections behind Spider-Man's origin. That's why characters like Morlun and Ezekiel were introduced and Dr. Strange was also present for some of JMS's run, so I'm not sure if it's fair to say that he's primarily science fiction hero. IMO, crap is crap. Even if it were a mystical hero like Strange or what have you I think it would have been equally disgusting. OMD was pretty much shit. I personally don't fault JMS for writing it, you can literally smell Quesada forcing himself on JMS that whole book. Truly a tragic end to JMS's run on Spider-Man after such stories as "The Life and Death of Spiders," "The Book of Ezekiel," and "Happy Birthday" among other arcs [save "Sins Past"...I have mixed feelings about that one]. That's the true tragedy...a blemish on JMS's Amazing Spider-Man run. I weep myself to sleep thinking about how OMD was the end.
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spidey_17
The Unstoppable Ledgernaut
With Great Power Comes Great.... suffering?
Posts: 4,961
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Post by spidey_17 on Nov 14, 2010 23:41:02 GMT -5
@illy: Fair enough!
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Post by Crom-Cruach on Nov 15, 2010 0:47:21 GMT -5
Quesada is an insult to all comic book fans on the planet.
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spidey_17
The Unstoppable Ledgernaut
With Great Power Comes Great.... suffering?
Posts: 4,961
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Post by spidey_17 on Nov 15, 2010 4:16:29 GMT -5
Quesada is an insult to all comic book fans on the planet. He did a great job on DD though, IMO. Also his art is pretty good. I prefer him more as an artist than a writer. =]
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Post by Crom-Cruach on Nov 15, 2010 15:01:00 GMT -5
He did a great job on DD though, IMO. Also his art is pretty good. I prefer him more as an artist than a writer. =] None of this will ever forgive his telling the world the most powerful sorcerer in existence. A being that pimp slapped Eternity like she was a two dollar whore can't heal a bullet wound on an old lady...
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spidey_17
The Unstoppable Ledgernaut
With Great Power Comes Great.... suffering?
Posts: 4,961
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Post by spidey_17 on Nov 15, 2010 18:47:01 GMT -5
LOL I understand. =]
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InnerVenom123
Team Buster Ledger
Venom: Lethal Avenger!
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Post by InnerVenom123 on Apr 12, 2011 15:28:21 GMT -5
JMS's original idea for OMD was going to involve Norman never killing Gwen Stacy, effectively sending the entire Marvel U back to the 70s..... yeah, I'm cool with OMD's results by comparison.
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Post by chyrondave on Apr 12, 2011 17:03:47 GMT -5
My $1.50 (2 cents adjusted for inflation)...
I used to be a big Spider-Man fan. I still am a fan of Ultimate Spider-Man. However, OMD was just a major slap in the face to every fan out there.
First of all, as mentioned before, Spider-Man/Peter Parker was acting completely and totally out of character, so much so that when Secret Invasion started, I really hoped that we found out that he was a Skrull, because that was the only way that OMD would have made any sense.
One of the basic themes that has run through every Spider-Man story is that with great power comes great responsibility. This theme is so strong that even non-comic fans know it. To have Mesphisto undo the damage that revealing his identity caused (another act that, let's face it, is completely, totally, and utterly out of character) with the only consequence being his marriage is so irresponsible that I could not imagine Spider-Man ever making that decision.
Secondly, anyone who has ever read an issue of the original Ghost Rider, or any story dealing with deals with the devil never go according to plan. Johnny Blaze sacrificed his soul to keep his mentor from dying of cancer, only to have him die in a crash. In Spider-Man's deal, he sacrifices his marriage to save his aunt, and what does he get? His aunt is saved, and he's single... and the extra added bonus that no one knows who he is anymore. There is no reprocussion in this deal. No Aunt May dying, no Aunt May actually being a demon that's killing off Peter's potential girlfriends, nothing.
Next there is the issue of the identity unreveal. According to the write up, no one knows that Peter Parker and Spider-Man are one in the same, not Aunt May, not the Fantastic Four or Daredevil, and not Norman Osborne. This little tweak of reality now turns one of the greatest stories in comic history, the death of Gwen Stacy, and ruins it, turning her not into a tragic pawn in the war between Spider-Man and the Green Goblin, but collaterol damage. (if what JMS was planning had actually occurred, it would have made much more sense).
To this day, I still can't read any of the sore Spider-Man books. And other team books in which Spider-Man appears hang on a thread (especially since Spider-Man seems to be a part of every team now, from the Avengers, to the X-Men, to the Fantastic Four/Fantastic Foundation, to Power Pack). I still pretty much put the blame on Quesada, since he was the one that insisted that there are no stories to tell for a married super-hero, then backed JMS into a corner by insisting that neither divorce or killing MJ were options for breaking up the marriage.
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InnerVenom123
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Post by InnerVenom123 on Apr 12, 2011 17:13:36 GMT -5
Next there is the issue of the identity unreveal. According to the write up, no one knows that Peter Parker and Spider-Man are one in the same, not Aunt May, not the Fantastic Four or Daredevil, and not Norman Osborne. This little tweak of reality now turns one of the greatest stories in comic history, the death of Gwen Stacy, and ruins it, turning her not into a tragic pawn in the war between Spider-Man and the Green Goblin, but collaterol damage. (if what JMS was planning had actually occurred, it would have made much more sense). Mary Jane knows, and did know from the start. OMIT explains that. The FF now know, and some of the Avengers. Also, FYI, every story still happened, but no one remembers the correct way. Everything happened, then a mindwipe, and now no one remembers correctly (aside from a few aformentioned).
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Post by Admin on Apr 12, 2011 17:19:11 GMT -5
"Everything happened, then a mindwipe, and now no one remembers correctly (aside from a few aformentioned). "
Apparently a technology wipe, too...Considering it was on live TV and likely all over the internet. I wish the symbiote still new. That could add some interesting depth to Flash's current situation.
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InnerVenom123
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Post by InnerVenom123 on Apr 12, 2011 17:22:23 GMT -5
"Everything happened, then a mindwipe, and now no one remembers correctly (aside from a few aformentioned). " Apparently a technology wipe, too...Considering it was on live TV and likely all over the internet. I wish the symbiote still new. That could add some interesting depth to Flash's current situation. It was a "SENTRY" style wipe(they explicitly say so in OMIT), so yes, everything got wiped. Kaine still knew, seeing as he was a clone. The symbiote could as well, seeing as it was literally attached to Peter's body for a few weeks. There's never been a page in any comic wherein it didn't know. That little "oops wrong host!" moment from New Ways To Die easily could have been the symbiote tricking Mac into finding Eddie so it could ditch him (which it tried to do, readily).
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Post by Admin on Apr 12, 2011 17:23:36 GMT -5
But the wearer is granted the knowledge...So Flash would be like "Hold on, my best friend is the guy I worship too?" lol
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InnerVenom123
Team Buster Ledger
Venom: Lethal Avenger!
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Post by InnerVenom123 on Apr 12, 2011 17:26:15 GMT -5
But the wearer is granted the knowledge...So Flash would be like "Hold on, my best friend is the guy I worship too?" lol Its not like it re-told Mac if I'm right about it still knowing. He clearly has no idea. So the same could be said for Flash. Besides, I think the symbiote is so high on government supplied chemicals that it really doesn't care whats going on at the moment. "Duuuuuuude...... where are we......"
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Post by chyrondave on Apr 12, 2011 17:38:51 GMT -5
Thanks for mentioning Flash, because it reminded me of something else. OMD/BND had been done before in the pages of The Flash (I know, not the Flash you were thinking of, but...)
In that story, The Spectre (now linked to Hal Jordan) helps Wally West/The Flash with the fact that everyone knows he is the Flash by tweaking reality. The next thing we know is that no one knows who the Flash is... even Wally.
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InnerVenom123
Team Buster Ledger
Venom: Lethal Avenger!
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Post by InnerVenom123 on Apr 12, 2011 17:41:16 GMT -5
Thanks for mentioning Flash, because it reminded me of something else. OMD/BND had been done before in the pages of The Flash (I know, not the Flash you were thinking of, but...) In that story, The Spectre (now linked to Hal Jordan) helps Wally West/The Flash with the fact that everyone knows he is the Flash by tweaking reality. The next thing we know is that no one knows who the Flash is... even Wally. Sounds like an exact duplicate of the original Paul Jenkins Sentry mindwipe (or maybe the opposite, depending on when this was).
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Post by chyrondave on Apr 12, 2011 18:08:53 GMT -5
The Sentry did come out first (I can't get an exact release date of the issue of the Flash), but the difference is that in Sentry's case, everyone forgot who Sentry was. In both Spider-Man and the Flash's case, people remembered who the heroes were, they just did not remember who the heroes were
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InnerVenom123
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Post by InnerVenom123 on Apr 12, 2011 18:11:42 GMT -5
The Sentry did come out first (I can't get an exact release date of the issue of the Flash), but the difference is that in Sentry's case, everyone forgot who Sentry was. In both Spider-Man and the Flash's case, people remembered who the heroes were, they just did not remember who the heroes were True.
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Post by Lord Barbatos on Apr 14, 2011 12:00:36 GMT -5
I think they should have avoided the whole Mephisto thing.There are other ways of retconning.
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InnerVenom123
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Post by InnerVenom123 on Apr 20, 2011 13:34:43 GMT -5
Which is exactly what OMIT did.
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