Silver
The Unstoppable Ledgernaut
The Fourth Precept
Posts: 4,654
|
Post by Silver on Jun 30, 2011 19:01:56 GMT -5
I think Donald Glut (the author of the ESB novel) may have made Yoda blue because of early concept art for him which depicts him as such.
|
|
JediXMan
Enhanced Ledger
2011; the year of the Sith
Posts: 578
|
Post by JediXMan on Jul 3, 2011 15:59:57 GMT -5
1. Well, on invisibility, it makes sense that if they're bound, they can become invisible. Perhaps the thought that they have somewhere to "go into," if you will, while others are free spirits with nowhere to hide. Sidious may have had more freedom of movement, but Nadd was stronger while in Essence form and could travel much faster. Palpatine also did nothing while in that form. It's also note worthy that Palpatine spent a great deal of time preparing for his own death. We don't know about Nadd. Kun knew, but hadn't planned for it. It was just a spur-of-the-moment thing to save his hide. Nihilus is extremely vague, and we know nothing of what he did. We actually did discuss Nihilus at great lengths in the Nihilus vs Kun thread on the Vine. 2. I'm not asking for much. There should indeed be some ambiguity, but I would like something. Maybe a solo novel. 1. Maybe, but Palpatine was free to roam, and Luke appeared to have trouble tracking him. I still think Sith spirits are untraceable through the Force across the board. Not sure how Nadd is stronger in Essence form. As I said, most of his feats while in that state were at places like Korriban or the Empress Teta system (where the Ketos were practicing dark side magic), which had heavy dark side energies lingering there. Not sure about him traveling faster either. He seemed to travel by ship alongside Kun. Sidious traveled through space under his own accord. Besides, Sidious preparing for his own death was only because Plagueis never taught him Essence Transfer, as far I know. He knew Midichlorian Manipulation instead, but since Sidious never learned that power, he had to discover an alternate method of preserving himself. And really, only his first death was prepared for. His death over Pinnacle Base or on Onderon were unseen. He could use Transfer Essence voluntarily or involuntarily. As far as I can tell, Sith spirits are not necessarily more or less powerful than one another. They just may have a varying degree of dark side potency because of the individual Sith's power level and will, which could make them easier or harder to banish. Agreed on Nihilus and Kun. 2. Freedon Nadd is one Sith I have waited for a novel on for a long time. We will have a Darth Plagueis novel next year though. I would not mind if the Clone Wars show was considered non-canon. Same for the Force Unleashed. But they are and it pisses me off. I would not mind that either. 1. Well, the reason I said Nadd was stronger in essence form (as far as comparing their respective spiritual manifestations) was because he was able to do more than Palpatine. As I recall, Palaptine didn't really do much while in spiritual form, while Nadd still had some power to affect the physical world. Same for Marka Ragnos - though all Ragnos did that was of any significance post-mortem was branding Exar Kun and Ulic Qel-Droma. Yeah, I'm ignoring Jedi Academy. Beaten by a Knight..... pathetic. Love the game up until the final fight. My point, though, of planning vs unplanned was to do with what led to it. Palpatine planned for years, which is why he had the clones in the first place. But we don't know if Nadd did or even Ragnos. Seems to me that the Sith of old were rather free to appear as ghosts if they so wished (Marka Ragnos, Freedon Nadd, Ajunta Pall, etc.) 2, Who is writing the Plagueis novel, again? I'll definitely read it, though I confess that I am far more interested in the upcoming Revan novel - which will be the first and most likely only TOR novel I will read. I just feel like bumping this because I refuse to let XMan leave without finishing our discussion. Just for the sake of possibly starting another conversation though, did anyone here know that in the Empire Strikes Back novel, Yoda was blue instead of green. ;D Sorry, sorry....
|
|
Silver
The Unstoppable Ledgernaut
The Fourth Precept
Posts: 4,654
|
Post by Silver on Jul 3, 2011 16:27:00 GMT -5
1. Well, the reason I said Nadd was stronger in essence form (as far as comparing their respective spiritual manifestations) was because he was able to do more than Palpatine. As I recall, Palaptine didn't really do much while in spiritual form, while Nadd still had some power to affect the physical world. Same for Marka Ragnos - though all Ragnos did that was of any significance post-mortem was branding Exar Kun and Ulic Qel-Droma. Yeah, I'm ignoring Jedi Academy. Beaten by a Knight..... pathetic. Love the game up until the final fight. My point, though, of planning vs unplanned was to do with what led to it. Palpatine planned for years, which is why he had the clones in the first place. But we don't know if Nadd did or even Ragnos. Seems to me that the Sith of old were rather free to appear as ghosts if they so wished (Marka Ragnos, Freedon Nadd, Ajunta Pall, etc.) 2, Who is writing the Plagueis novel, again? I'll definitely read it, though I confess that I am far more interested in the upcoming Revan novel - which will be the first and most likely only TOR novel I will read. Sorry, sorry.... 1. I agree. But as I said, Nadd managed these things in places of power (Korriban in particular). Sidious also had no intention of remaining in an Essence form. He wanted to live physically forever rather than simply roam around as a disembodied spirit. But the reason I believe Nadd could do such feats was because of where he was. Same with Exar Kun. It was not necessarily a matter of them being intrinsically more powerful unto themselves but rather where they were when they accomplished these showings, in my humble opinion. 2. Luceno is writing it; so you can trust that it will be a worthwhile read. I also am looking forward to the Revan novel though. No problem. By the way, I am about to start reading the Callista trilogy. Have you ever read it? If so, what are your thoughts on it? I have heard several poor reviews on it but want to jump into it anyway.
|
|
JediXMan
Enhanced Ledger
2011; the year of the Sith
Posts: 578
|
Post by JediXMan on Jul 3, 2011 17:10:21 GMT -5
1. Well, the reason I said Nadd was stronger in essence form (as far as comparing their respective spiritual manifestations) was because he was able to do more than Palpatine. As I recall, Palaptine didn't really do much while in spiritual form, while Nadd still had some power to affect the physical world. Same for Marka Ragnos - though all Ragnos did that was of any significance post-mortem was branding Exar Kun and Ulic Qel-Droma. Yeah, I'm ignoring Jedi Academy. Beaten by a Knight..... pathetic. Love the game up until the final fight. My point, though, of planning vs unplanned was to do with what led to it. Palpatine planned for years, which is why he had the clones in the first place. But we don't know if Nadd did or even Ragnos. Seems to me that the Sith of old were rather free to appear as ghosts if they so wished (Marka Ragnos, Freedon Nadd, Ajunta Pall, etc.) 2, Who is writing the Plagueis novel, again? I'll definitely read it, though I confess that I am far more interested in the upcoming Revan novel - which will be the first and most likely only TOR novel I will read. Sorry, sorry.... 1. I agree. But as I said, Nadd managed these things in places of power (Korriban in particular). Sidious also had no intention of remaining in an Essence form. He wanted to live physically forever rather than simply roam around as a disembodied spirit. But the reason I believe Nadd could do such feats was because of where he was. Same with Exar Kun. It was not necessarily a matter of them being intrinsically more powerful unto themselves but rather where they were when they accomplished these showings, in my humble opinion. 2. Luceno is writing it; so you can trust that it will be a worthwhile read. I also am looking forward to the Revan novel though. No problem. By the way, I am about to start reading the Callista trilogy. Have you ever read it? If so, what are your thoughts on it? I have heard several poor reviews on it but want to jump into it anyway. 1. I can agree with this. Though I wasn't so much saying that they were more powerful than one another based on their spiritual abilities, as so much I was saying that - in their spirit forms alone - they were at different levels. But as you said, Palpatine wasn't interested in that. 2. Hm. I'm definitely going to read it; it's simply a matter of when. I confess I have not read that series. I might actually own at least one book from the series, but I haven't read it (I got my hands on a bunch of Star Wars novels for a cheap price, but haven't read them. I'm not even sure of what I have). By the way, have you read the Force Unleashed II novel? I haven't - not even sure if I will. I want to read the Graphic Novel (mostly since it has a lot of Boba Fett and, I believe, told from his perspective) but have not yet. I just wanted to know if they explained the crap that he did.
|
|
Silver
The Unstoppable Ledgernaut
The Fourth Precept
Posts: 4,654
|
Post by Silver on Jul 3, 2011 17:26:22 GMT -5
1. I can agree with this. Though I wasn't so much saying that they were more powerful than one another based on their spiritual abilities, as so much I was saying that - in their spirit forms alone - they were at different levels. But as you said, Palpatine wasn't interested in that. 2. Hm. I'm definitely going to read it; it's simply a matter of when. I confess I have not read that series. I might actually own at least one book from the series, but I haven't read it (I got my hands on a bunch of Star Wars novels for a cheap price, but haven't read them. I'm not even sure of what I have). By the way, have you read the Force Unleashed II novel? I haven't - not even sure if I will. I want to read the Graphic Novel (mostly since it has a lot of Boba Fett and, I believe, told from his perspective) but have not yet. I just wanted to know if they explained the crap that he did. 1. Sure, I understand. I think we have reached an agreement on this subject. 2. The Plagueis novel will not be released till next year, if memory serves. So no need to worry about that now. Still, I have high hopes for it purely because of Luceno. Fair enough. I was wondering because Barbara Hambly is not a very well liked EU author, and she wrote two of the books in the trilogy (the first, Children of the Jedi and the last, Planet of Twilight). Kevin J. Anderson wrote the second novel, Darksaber. I personally really like KJA; so if nothing else, I hope his contribution to the trilogy is good. The problem with KJA though is that in all of his works, he introduced very bizarre concepts because he was always reaching for these epic, grand-scale stories. So he can be a hit-or-miss type writer. I personally really like his work, such as TotJ and the Jedi Academy trilogy, but I know some people dislike his work altogether. I also have talked to someone who likes his writing but has some issues with a few of his ideas. I have not read FU2, and like you, not sure if I will. I did read the FU2 comic, but honestly, it annoyed me. It really is strange that FU2 was as poor as it was, because Haden Blackman is usually a great EU writer. I have read several SW comics by him, and aside from TFU, all of them were good. Here is one of my main problems with the FU2 comic though: SPOILER ALERT:There were clones of Boba being made on Kamino. -__-END SPOILER
|
|
JediXMan
Enhanced Ledger
2011; the year of the Sith
Posts: 578
|
Post by JediXMan on Jul 3, 2011 17:34:04 GMT -5
I have not read FU2, and like you, not sure if I will. I did read the FU2 comic, but honestly, it annoyed me. It really is strange that FU2 was as poor as it was, because Haden Blackman is usually a great EU writer. I have read several SW comics by him, and aside from TFU, all of them were good. Here is one of my main problems with the FU2 comic though: SPOILER ALERT:There were clones of Boba being made on Kamino. -__-END SPOILERClones of a clone. Yeah, sure, that makes sense. The entire Force Unleashed saga I find annoying, but the sequel was terrible.
|
|
Silver
The Unstoppable Ledgernaut
The Fourth Precept
Posts: 4,654
|
Post by Silver on Jul 3, 2011 17:42:35 GMT -5
I have not read FU2, and like you, not sure if I will. I did read the FU2 comic, but honestly, it annoyed me. It really is strange that FU2 was as poor as it was, because Haden Blackman is usually a great EU writer. I have read several SW comics by him, and aside from TFU, all of them were good. Here is one of my main problems with the FU2 comic though: SPOILER ALERT:There were clones of Boba being made on Kamino. -__-END SPOILERClones of a clone. Yeah, sure, that makes sense. The entire Force Unleashed saga I find annoying, but the sequel was terrible. Exactly. I agree. The first, agreed, annoying. There were parts that just made no sense, like if Starkiller truly was a Jedi, why did he release a Dark Side Burst upon dying? For that matter, why did Shaak Ti release a Dark Side Burst? Starkiller also has too many Mary Sue elements with little in way of interesting character depth. I do not hate the first, but it is definitely one of the less intriguing EU stories out there. FU2 was worse. It was just a huge "F U" to continuity. It was so bloody pointless. It lacked story quality, character development, and placement in continuity.
|
|
JediXMan
Enhanced Ledger
2011; the year of the Sith
Posts: 578
|
Post by JediXMan on Jul 3, 2011 18:58:35 GMT -5
Clones of a clone. Yeah, sure, that makes sense. The entire Force Unleashed saga I find annoying, but the sequel was terrible. Exactly. I agree. The first, agreed, annoying. There were parts that just made no sense, like if Starkiller truly was a Jedi, why did he release a Dark Side Burst upon dying? For that matter, why did Shaak Ti release a Dark Side Burst? Starkiller also has too many Mary Sue elements with little in way of interesting character depth. I do not hate the first, but it is definitely one of the less intriguing EU stories out there. FU2 was worse. It was just a huge "F U" to continuity. It was so bloody pointless. It lacked story quality, character development, and placement in continuity. Agreed on all points. I think Kazdan Paratus released a burst, too. In the novel, it said that Starkiller struck him down with lightning. But the game shows Starkiller as being surprised.
|
|
Silver
The Unstoppable Ledgernaut
The Fourth Precept
Posts: 4,654
|
Post by Silver on Jul 3, 2011 19:01:24 GMT -5
Exactly. I agree. The first, agreed, annoying. There were parts that just made no sense, like if Starkiller truly was a Jedi, why did he release a Dark Side Burst upon dying? For that matter, why did Shaak Ti release a Dark Side Burst? Starkiller also has too many Mary Sue elements with little in way of interesting character depth. I do not hate the first, but it is definitely one of the less intriguing EU stories out there. FU2 was worse. It was just a huge "F U" to continuity. It was so bloody pointless. It lacked story quality, character development, and placement in continuity. Agreed on all points. I think Kazdan Paratus released a burst, too. In the novel, it said that Starkiller struck him down with lightning. But the game shows Starkiller as being surprised. If so, I do not remember that, but it could be. Not that I care enough to check though. Knowing how the book was written, it seems like every Force sensitive, regardless of alignment, released a burst upon death though. So it sounds plausible for that to have happened.
|
|
JediXMan
Enhanced Ledger
2011; the year of the Sith
Posts: 578
|
Post by JediXMan on Jul 3, 2011 21:11:29 GMT -5
Agreed on all points. I think Kazdan Paratus released a burst, too. In the novel, it said that Starkiller struck him down with lightning. But the game shows Starkiller as being surprised. If so, I do not remember that, but it could be. Not that I care enough to check though. Knowing how the book was written, it seems like every Force sensitive, regardless of alignment, released a burst upon death though. So it sounds plausible for that to have happened. It's been some time since I read it - and, honestly, it wasn't so good that I would care to read it again - but I believe this is how it was explained / how I imagined it / how I rationalized it / my word is law. Kazdan Paratus - electrocuted by Starkiller via bolt of lightning. Shaak Ti - fell into Sarlacc Pit. Sarlacc thrashed around in pain because it cared for her / had a bond with her. Starkiller - explosion had more to do with Palpatine's lightning than Starkiller. Similar to the blast that occurred when Yoda fought Palpatine. Anyway, that's how I saw it. Could of course be wrong, though.
|
|
Pirateking69
Team Buster Ledger
Megatron: "Who would you be without me, Prime?" Optimus: "Time to find out."
Posts: 1,638
|
Post by Pirateking69 on Jul 3, 2011 21:57:39 GMT -5
Ok got a question want to get into star wars comics not sure where to start because in the novels I still got to start banes trilogy
|
|
JediXMan
Enhanced Ledger
2011; the year of the Sith
Posts: 578
|
Post by JediXMan on Jul 3, 2011 22:05:48 GMT -5
Ok got a question want to get into star wars comics not sure where to start because in the novels I still got to start banes trilogy I would say that the Tales of the Jedi series is a good one to start with. Excellent series and doesn't require prior reading.
|
|
Pirateking69
Team Buster Ledger
Megatron: "Who would you be without me, Prime?" Optimus: "Time to find out."
Posts: 1,638
|
Post by Pirateking69 on Jul 3, 2011 22:14:42 GMT -5
Ok thanks jedix will have to check it out when I get a chance
|
|
Silver
The Unstoppable Ledgernaut
The Fourth Precept
Posts: 4,654
|
Post by Silver on Jul 4, 2011 17:02:51 GMT -5
If so, I do not remember that, but it could be. Not that I care enough to check though. Knowing how the book was written, it seems like every Force sensitive, regardless of alignment, released a burst upon death though. So it sounds plausible for that to have happened. It's been some time since I read it - and, honestly, it wasn't so good that I would care to read it again - but I believe this is how it was explained / how I imagined it / how I rationalized it / my word is law. Kazdan Paratus - electrocuted by Starkiller via bolt of lightning. Shaak Ti - fell into Sarlacc Pit. Sarlacc thrashed around in pain because it cared for her / had a bond with her. Starkiller - explosion had more to do with Palpatine's lightning than Starkiller. Similar to the blast that occurred when Yoda fought Palpatine. Anyway, that's how I saw it. Could of course be wrong, though. Haha. Right. Your points make sense, but Yoda never died. The explosion between Yoda and Sidious (that was only in the movie, just for the record) was because of Force Deflection. I have never seen Lightning cause anyone to explode before. Really, I think it just had to do with the writer (Sean Williams) incorrectly thinking that light siders release Dark Side Bursts the same way dark siders do (even though anyone who just watches the movies knows better than that....).
|
|
JediXMan
Enhanced Ledger
2011; the year of the Sith
Posts: 578
|
Post by JediXMan on Jul 4, 2011 20:51:36 GMT -5
It's been some time since I read it - and, honestly, it wasn't so good that I would care to read it again - but I believe this is how it was explained / how I imagined it / how I rationalized it / my word is law. Kazdan Paratus - electrocuted by Starkiller via bolt of lightning. Shaak Ti - fell into Sarlacc Pit. Sarlacc thrashed around in pain because it cared for her / had a bond with her. Starkiller - explosion had more to do with Palpatine's lightning than Starkiller. Similar to the blast that occurred when Yoda fought Palpatine. Anyway, that's how I saw it. Could of course be wrong, though. Haha. Right. Your points make sense, but Yoda never died. The explosion between Yoda and Sidious (that was only in the movie, just for the record) was because of Force Deflection. I have never seen Lightning cause anyone to explode before. Really, I think it just had to do with the writer (Sean Williams) incorrectly thinking that light siders release Dark Side Bursts the same way dark siders do (even though anyone who just watches the movies knows better than that....). True. But when the movies conflict with the books... sadly, movies win. Well sometimes. Depends. True, but Yoda is not Starkiller. And Palpatine survived in Force Unleashed, as well. That's why I'm comparing it to that.
|
|
Silver
The Unstoppable Ledgernaut
The Fourth Precept
Posts: 4,654
|
Post by Silver on Jul 4, 2011 21:38:17 GMT -5
Haha. Right. Your points make sense, but Yoda never died. The explosion between Yoda and Sidious (that was only in the movie, just for the record) was because of Force Deflection. I have never seen Lightning cause anyone to explode before. Really, I think it just had to do with the writer (Sean Williams) incorrectly thinking that light siders release Dark Side Bursts the same way dark siders do (even though anyone who just watches the movies knows better than that....). True. But when the movies conflict with the books... sadly, movies win. Well sometimes. Depends. True, but Yoda is not Starkiller. And Palpatine survived in Force Unleashed, as well. That's why I'm comparing it to that. Well, I see your point. But Yoda survived when Starkiller, Shaak, and Paratus did not.
|
|
JediXMan
Enhanced Ledger
2011; the year of the Sith
Posts: 578
|
Post by JediXMan on Jul 4, 2011 22:33:18 GMT -5
True. But when the movies conflict with the books... sadly, movies win. Well sometimes. Depends. True, but Yoda is not Starkiller. And Palpatine survived in Force Unleashed, as well. That's why I'm comparing it to that. Well, I see your point. But Yoda survived when Starkiller, Shaak, and Paratus did not. Well, Starkiller - as we have established - doesn't have too much control. And my explanation for Paratus and Shaak Ti are different than Starkiller. I'm just trying to rationalize it.
|
|
Silver
The Unstoppable Ledgernaut
The Fourth Precept
Posts: 4,654
|
Post by Silver on Jul 5, 2011 2:17:44 GMT -5
Well, I see your point. But Yoda survived when Starkiller, Shaak, and Paratus did not. Well, Starkiller - as we have established - doesn't have too much control. And my explanation for Paratus and Shaak Ti are different than Starkiller. I'm just trying to rationalize it.Which is understandable, and your theory could be true.
|
|
JediXMan
Enhanced Ledger
2011; the year of the Sith
Posts: 578
|
Post by JediXMan on Jul 6, 2011 20:53:15 GMT -5
Hey, did you read the Legacy finale?
|
|
Silver
The Unstoppable Ledgernaut
The Fourth Precept
Posts: 4,654
|
Post by Silver on Jul 6, 2011 21:33:33 GMT -5
No. I really am not up to date on Legacy. Still in the middle of the Callista trilogy right now, and I already have another novel series I plan to read directly after.
|
|