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Post by NexusOfLight on Jun 26, 2011 18:21:03 GMT -5
I'm gathering information about some Celtic and Finnish mythology for a future story that I'm writing. If it's not too much trouble, could you give me a beginner to intermediate introduction of the two? The Celtics especially.
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Post by Crom-Cruach on Jun 27, 2011 13:10:59 GMT -5
I'm gathering information about some Celtic and Finnish mythology for a future story that I'm writing. If it's not too much trouble, could you give me a beginner to intermediate introduction of the two? The Celtics especially. O.K, what exactly do you need really? It's a rather tall order in itself. Can you specify. Do you need structure? belief systems? general concepts behind their stories? Major myths. Mythology in itself, any mythology is huge so I'd like a narrower question to help me find a starting point from where I can start introducing the topic.
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Post by NexusOfLight on Jun 27, 2011 22:27:01 GMT -5
Basically the general run down on how in the myths,the deities treated and acted towards the people, and how the people looked towards them. I'm gonna dig into some more specific deities when I get more into my research. If there's a book or website you could point me too, that'd be great. Right now I'm just using Wiki and Godchecker.
I guess right now, something similar to your post on the Yoruba a couple pages back would do me good. Pretty much just a good starting point, and if there's a particular deity or story that stood out to you, or just a story that sorta exemplifies the general themes and lessons that those particular sets of people hold dear.
So yeah, a brief intro to the structure, and a general theme or concept behind most of their stories.
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Post by Crom-Cruach on Jun 28, 2011 19:05:17 GMT -5
Alright, I'll start with Celtic mythology give a brief rundown, then after I've answered any further questions you have. I'll move to Finnish mythology.
Alright, the first thing to understand about the Celts is that their it's a indo-european culture that shares series of related languages. This culture covers many smaller groups such as the Gauls, Picts, Celtic Ireland, the Welsh and Britons etc. Their culture basically dominated western Europe until the Romans decided they were going to conquer all this shit. The reason I'm pointing this out is because it's important to understand that they were a unified culture but instead a congregation of tribes that were often at war with one another. This lack of unification is the main reasons the Romans kicked their asses.
Celtic mythology was polytheistic, meaning they worshiped many gods it was also very insular and henotheistic. Meaning that individual tribes had individual gods. They placed importance in the power of nature and the elements. Sacred streams, trees and caves could be inhabited by small gods etc. War was seen as a sacred act and great heroes could challenge gods and mythical beasts.
Another important trait is that the Celts had not writing until the Romans introduced it to their culture. Their priest, the druids, had a sacred pictogram writing called oghams but it was not meant to be used as writing per say, but a tool for working rituals and magic. This mean that what we know of their mythology was either written down after they already started melded into the invading culture or was from descendants of the earlier generations of celts. Who by then had been well assimilated in the new culture.
The best written source we have for Celtic mythology comes from Ireland where the stories of their gods and heroes are written down by monks in the following cycles: Mythological Cycle Ulster Cycle Fenian cycle Historical Cycle
In this regards it is heavily Christianized in some aspects, having been recorded by christian monks. However a lot of the sub-text is mostly intact so it's a valuable source.
The best sources are archeological, where the remains show that the Celts saw the world as one where struggle was inevitable. The older generation had to fight the newer one to stay in power. Night battled day, etc. In this regard, the Celts were great warriors and their priest saw power in blood, conquest and all aspects of nature whom their culture understood could never be completely controlled. In this regard, their gods were being of great passion, power and glory. But also with grand flaws and often doomed by destiny for previous acts.
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Post by NexusOfLight on Jun 29, 2011 18:41:17 GMT -5
Alright, that's cool.
So you mentioned heroes. Were these just like mortal men blessed by the gods to do some great thing, or did these heroes go around fighting the gods? What was sorta the relationship between gods and men in the stories? Clearly the people worshiped them so I assume some sorta ritualistic sacrifices were going on. Did they do these things to appease the gods or was it because they loved them so much they wanted to show their gratitude? Were most of these gods angry, and vindictive towards non-godly people? Were they angry with themselves? What sorta characteristics would you see from them? How, for lack of a better term, human were them based on their actions?
Oh--and this is something I sorta just thought of--did the Celts have any mythical non-gods in their myths? Like mythical races or people, or was there just tales of gods and heroes?
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Post by Crom-Cruach on Jun 29, 2011 19:05:38 GMT -5
So you mentioned heroes. Were these just like mortal men blessed by the gods to do some great thing, or did these heroes go around fighting the gods? Celtic mythology tends to follow into both or in-between. Celtic heroes were often gifted with great powers by gods and goddesses that favored them. But at the same time they also fought gods and great mythical beasts. Cu Chulainn for example, likely the greatest of Celtic heroes was blessed by Lugh the god of excellence. He was beauty beyond any human, blessed with great strength etc. But when he pissed of Morrigan the goddess of War he battled her. He further dallied with the daughter of the god of the Sea. Celtic heroes are larger then life, living with great passion, performing incredible feats and in turn often having grand flaws. What was sorta the relationship between gods and men in the stories? Gods appear along side heroes and either interact with them, impose their will upon them or battle them depending on the case. It is clear that gods have great power in Celtic myths but larger then life heroes can interact with them and in turn, they too can become gods or like gods. Thought some gods are so powerful that no human hero can ever hope to even hurt them. Clearly the people worshiped them so I assume some sorta ritualistic sacrifices were going on. Did they do these things to appease the gods or was it because they loved them so much they wanted to show their gratitude? Here again, sometimes both, sometimes one or the other and sometimes neither. Sacrifices in the form of animal sacrifice, food sacrifice of the collected harvest and sometimes (thought very very rarely) human sacrifice were common demonstrations of worship as were long wild ceremonies were druids took the roles of the gods to ritually replay myths etc. Estatic wild parties that would put the best roman bachanalia to shame were also common. Ritual battles and competitions also existed. The polytheistic celts, loved their gods of bounty, good fortune, hunting, love, fertility and harvest. But they feared their gods of darkness, death war, pestilence, chaos and the destructive side of the elements. In turn you carried ritual to give thanks for the gifts of gods and to appease them and not call their wrath upon you. Were most of these gods angry, and vindictive towards non-godly people? Were they angry with themselves? What sorta characteristics would you see from them? How, for lack of a better term, human were them based on their actions? The celtic gods are very human in nature and action. They thus run from the gamut of peaceful and wise to petty, bloodthirsty and vindictive. And like people they are neither perfect, and they can be kind or cruel, depending on their personalities. Oh--and this is something I sorta just thought of--did the Celts have any mythical non-gods in their myths? Like mythical races or people, or was there just tales of gods and heroes? Celtic mythology is filled with this. Tons of Faerie creatures, giants, sea monsters, dwarf like dwellers, nature spirits, etc. Some of their gods were even actually said to be elves, giants etc.
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Post by NexusOfLight on Jun 29, 2011 19:16:58 GMT -5
I can dig it. Any gods or heroes you can suggest that I should start looking into? Other than that, we could move onto Finnish stuff.
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Post by Crom-Cruach on Jun 29, 2011 19:21:22 GMT -5
I can dig it. Any gods or heroes you can suggest that I should start looking into? Finn Mac'Cool (yes that's his name, best name ever) and Cuchulain are a good starting point. If you're satisfied I'll give a run down of Finnish mythology tomorrow
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Post by NexusOfLight on Jun 29, 2011 19:27:45 GMT -5
I like it.
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Post by Phantom Stargrave on Jun 30, 2011 3:30:15 GMT -5
Hm, Finnish mythology. I don't think I've ever come across it before. This should be interesting...
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Post by NexusOfLight on Jun 30, 2011 17:15:41 GMT -5
Feel free to ask questions I don't think of. I'm sure Crom won't mind all too much.
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Post by NexusOfLight on Jun 30, 2011 22:38:28 GMT -5
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Post by Crom-Cruach on Jul 1, 2011 17:46:39 GMT -5
Alright, sorry for the late reply. But I had to help my sister move into her new appartment, so busy busy.
Allright. Here's a brief rundown of Finnish mythology. The Finns are an indo-european cultural group that share common culture, mythology and history with the Estonians and the Samis. In this regard they also were constantly in contact with various germanic peoples and inherited many traits from them.
The Finns were animistic, believe the world was littered with spirits. There were spirits for just about everything in the world. They lived in a very harsh land so they revered and feared the power of nature. Mythologically speaking this meant their shamans were very important but also that their culture contained many taboos as well as prescriptions to avoid angering the spirit world.
Above the thousands of spirits were greater spirits, gods who ministered various aspects of the worlds. The Finns had thousands of gods, all of which had great magical powers. The best source on Finnish mythology is the Kalevala an elaborate mythic cycle describing the adventures of Vainamoinen, the magician god.
The Finns believed that the world was flat. A single island in a world surrounding by great seas inside a giant dome created by the powers of the Heavens. This land was hatched from the egg of a giant sea bird that exploded and the movements of the sky were believed to be the rotation of the dome around the North Star.
Bird were very important in Finnish mythology as it was believed birds were the ones who carried the souls of newborns into their breasts, allowing them to live. Many other animals were also revered as magical, kin to man or powerful spiritually. The greatest amongst them was the Bear. Whom was the symbol of power in the world. It's name must never be uttered aloud less you call it's wrath upon yourself. This meant that when speaking of bears they uses nicknames.
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Post by Supreme Marvel on Dec 11, 2011 13:07:44 GMT -5
Got anything on Banshee? I'm thinking of using her eventually in my supernatural/detective story.
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Post by Phantom Stargrave on Dec 11, 2011 15:35:48 GMT -5
I heard she's a screamer.
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Post by Supreme Marvel on Dec 11, 2011 15:39:28 GMT -5
Beat it with sticks!!!!!
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Post by Crom-Cruach on Dec 11, 2011 17:16:08 GMT -5
Got anything on Banshee? I'm thinking of using her eventually in my supernatural/detective story. sure, that's an easy one. Banshees or bean-nighe as the name is properly written in gaelic were a type of negative spirit associated with death and tragedy. They were described either a ghostly women or hags. According to legends, the wails of the banshees could be heard over the moors and anyone who heard then was believed to be cursed to suffer a horrific death. Typically, Banshees were also associated with vengeance as they were servants of the Goddess and War, The Morrigan. Banshees were commonly associated to the bloody warfare between Irish and Scottish clans. In this regard banshees would sometimes bring doom upon a clan that had wronged another. Banshees weren't all bad however in the sense that they had power over death, but they were also prophetesses. They could divine the future and see the past. A great hero who was noble and had not wronged another could approach a banshee and have his fortune said, or gain lost knowledge of the past by coming to them.
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Post by Supreme Marvel on Dec 11, 2011 17:24:12 GMT -5
YES! The last section was what I was hoping to be told! THANKS! It'll go with the theme of my story.
THOU, ART TO BE EXALTED!
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Post by Crom-Cruach on Dec 11, 2011 17:25:39 GMT -5
It is my great pleasure to spread knowledge and slay Ignorance, the great Foe.
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Post by Supreme Marvel on Dec 11, 2011 17:27:45 GMT -5
How about artefacts? I have an artefact that starts it all for my character. It's self made. But it would be nice to know some of your favourite artefacts. Whether they be from myth or from fiction.
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