Vance Astro
The Unstoppable Ledgernaut
You Just Mad Cuz i'm Stylin On you!
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Post by Vance Astro on Dec 24, 2010 14:01:11 GMT -5
This isn't a misconception it's a fact. No it's a dumb myth enforced by ignorance of the grander scale or the paradigm of each universes. When you take the entire universes of each company. Neither are more powerful. But that wouldn't match up with what you said...You said it's a misconception that Marvel's HEROES are weaker than DC's. If you're comparing Universes as a whole, sure they are about even but as far as strictly heroes...DC's heroes are definitely more powerful.Their speedsters aren't comparable,their powerhouses (Class 100+) are not comparable, the only thing Marvel really has over them is powerful magicians and the best they had (Strange) was severely depowered. |
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Post by Crom-Cruach on Dec 24, 2010 14:24:50 GMT -5
But that wouldn't match up with what you said...You said it's a misconception that Marvel's HEROES are weaker than DC's. If you're comparing Universes as a whole, sure they are about even but as far as strictly heroes...DC's heroes are definitely more powerful.Their speedsters aren't comparable,their powerhouses (Class 100+) are not comparable, the only thing Marvel really has over them is powerful magicians and the best they had (Strange) was severely depowered. You misunderstand my statement heavily. Sad. Marvel's "hero" paradigm is not the same as DCs. And thus people mismatch characters and what they believe to be the counterpart of the other universe. Marvel's heroes are not weaker. They just don't follow the same paradigm. Sure superman is stronger then Sentry. But despite how easy it is to compare them, Sentry is not Marvel's Superman counter part. I'll elaborate if you want to but I think you'll get my point. |
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Vance Astro
The Unstoppable Ledgernaut
You Just Mad Cuz i'm Stylin On you!
Posts: 5,732
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Post by Vance Astro on Dec 24, 2010 14:33:34 GMT -5
But that wouldn't match up with what you said...You said it's a misconception that Marvel's HEROES are weaker than DC's. If you're comparing Universes as a whole, sure they are about even but as far as strictly heroes...DC's heroes are definitely more powerful.Their speedsters aren't comparable,their powerhouses (Class 100+) are not comparable, the only thing Marvel really has over them is powerful magicians and the best they had (Strange) was severely depowered. You misunderstand my statement heavily. Sad. Marvel's "hero" paradigm is not the same as DCs. And thus people mismatch characters and what they believe to be the counterpart of the other universe. Marvel's heroes are not weaker. They just don't follow the same paradigm. Sure superman is stronger then Sentry. But despite how easy it is to compare them, Sentry is not Marvel's Superman counter part. I'll elaborate if you want to but I think you'll get my point. Well you didn't do any better explaining it just now.I still don't get what you're trying to say.Sentry doesn't match up with Superman but he's also one of Marvel's STRONGEST heroes.As far as HEROES go..there are none in Marvel that are a physical match for Superman accept maybe Thor and he's still weaker. |
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Post by Crom-Cruach on Dec 24, 2010 14:57:33 GMT -5
Well you didn't do any better explaining it just now.I still don't get what you're trying to say.Sentry doesn't match up with Superman but he's also one of Marvel's STRONGEST heroes.As far as HEROES go..there are none in Marvel that are a physical match for Superman accept maybe Thor and he's still weaker. Ah but see. Hero is a relative term and different universe paradigms of writing means that different writing priorities give more attention to certain aspects. The problem this creates is because Marvel has a real problem writing higher end characters thus they either fade to the background or are minor characters or cosmics. This is because Marvel wants "realism" and "heroes with humanity/real problems" DC is different they embrace the epic. They love it when their heroes go over the top, punch cosmic horrors in the face and have sex with goddesses all in a days work. That's because DC stories are either written like epic legends or great ballads or certain genres where realism is not necessarily a priority. In other words, two different ways of writing= different writing paradigms. This means the spotlight and stars of Marvel and DC, how their universes are innavitably structured and how storylines go will be different. The quest for the awesome and Epic in DC leads heroes to climb the ladder. While the quest for "realism" often robs marvel's heroes of their higher end ability. But neither are more powerful. -Thor at his natural strongest (as opposed to his cosmic odin force or rune king thor) is the true counterpart to Superman in Marvel. Take a look at his career by large and you can't say Thor is less powerful. He's less powerful now. Go back a year or two and that is not the case. -Batman's counter-part would likely be Black Panther. But contrived writing robbed him of his last advancement power ups. He's depowered now, when by large they would have been a match for each other or until he was depowered Black Panther was actually stronger until recently. Not anymore, Black Panther got depowered because that's how marvel writes, while Batman has the interceptor suit because DC writes differently. See the problem? As the worlds of Marvel fluctuates, it brings down it's heroes more often then not. While the Opposite happens for DC. Then you have the fact that Marvel's flagship characters, the ones that get more screen time are the low to mid tier characters. DC doesn't have that problem. Superman is their flagship character, Batman hangs out with them. And together with Wonder Woman they save the universe and are totally awesome doing it. Meanwhile Peter is looking for a job and fighting the lizard  The end result is that by appearance. It is very easy to think that DC heroes are stronger when they aren't really, power wise and feat wise by large. They are just written very differently. If you are to compare then. Compare careers as a whole, role in their universe and high end feats by their own merits (ignoring boosts from outside sources). Then DC and Marvel are actually equal in what power lies inside for it's heroes or the universe itself. |
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Vance Astro
The Unstoppable Ledgernaut
You Just Mad Cuz i'm Stylin On you!
Posts: 5,732
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Post by Vance Astro on Dec 24, 2010 15:11:01 GMT -5
Well you didn't do any better explaining it just now.I still don't get what you're trying to say.Sentry doesn't match up with Superman but he's also one of Marvel's STRONGEST heroes.As far as HEROES go..there are none in Marvel that are a physical match for Superman accept maybe Thor and he's still weaker. Ah but see. Hero is a relative term and different universe paradigms of writing means that different writing priorities give more attention to certain aspects. The problem this creates is because Marvel has a real problem writing higher end characters thus they either fade to the background or are minor characters or cosmics. This is because Marvel wants "realism" and "heroes with humanity/real problems" DC is different they embrace the epic. They love it when their heroes go over the top, punch cosmic horrors in the face and have sex with goddesses all in a days work. That's because DC stories are either written like epic legends or great ballads or certain genres where realism is not necessarily a priority. In other words, two different ways of writing= different writing paradigms. This means the spotlight and stars of Marvel and DC, how their universes are innavitably structured and how storylines go will be different. The quest for the awesome and Epic in DC leads heroes to climb the ladder. While the quest for "realism" often robs marvel's heroes of their higher end ability. But neither are more powerful. -Thor at his natural strongest (as opposed to his cosmic odin force or rune king thor) is the true counterpart to Superman in Marvel. Take a look at his career by large and you can't say Thor is less powerful. He's less powerful now. Go back a year or two and that is not the case. -Batman's counter-part would likely be Black Panther. But contrived writing robbed him of his last advancement power ups. He's depowered now, when by large they would have been a match for each other or until he was depowered Black Panther was actually stronger until recently. Not anymore, Black Panther got depowered because that's how marvel writes, while Batman has the interceptor suit because DC writes differently. See the problem? As the worlds of Marvel fluctuates, it brings down it's heroes more often then not. While the Opposite happens for DC. Then you have the fact that Marvel's flagship characters, the ones that get more screen time are the low to mid tier characters. DC doesn't have that problem. Superman is their flagship character, Batman hangs out with them. And together with Wonder Woman they save the universe and are totally awesome doing it. Meanwhile Peter is looking for a job and fighting the lizard The end result is that by appearance. It is very easy to think that DC heroes are stronger when they aren't really, power wise and feat wise by large. They are just written very differently. If you are to compare then. Compare careers as a whole, role in their universe and high end feats by their own merits (ignoring boosts from outside sources). Then DC and Marvel are actually equal in what power lies inside for it's heroes or the universe itself. I'm still not getting how you can say that DC's heroes aren't more powerful.Most of the match-ups you can make are still a mismatch.I understand people make stupid threads like Ms.Marvel vs. Wonder Woman because they think they are counterparts between companies but to be perfectly honest...how many Marvel characters can really match-up with Wonder Woman? She's physically stronger than the bulk of their 100 class and on top of it she's one of DC's best fighters. Who can really match those stats? |
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Post by Crom-Cruach on Dec 24, 2010 15:19:16 GMT -5
how many Marvel characters can really match-up with Wonder Woman? She's physically stronger than the bulk of their 100 class and on top of it she's one of DC's best fighters. Who can really match those stats? You'll have to look into the characters that appear into the cosmic aspects of their universe. Gods, magical beings and the higher end arcs of certain Marvel Characters. Because of different ways of writing. It isn't apparent because the matches for Wonder Woman don't occupy the same place in the Marvel universe. But they are there and Marvel does have characters more powerful then her. |
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Vance Astro
The Unstoppable Ledgernaut
You Just Mad Cuz i'm Stylin On you!
Posts: 5,732
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Post by Vance Astro on Dec 24, 2010 15:31:33 GMT -5
how many Marvel characters can really match-up with Wonder Woman? She's physically stronger than the bulk of their 100 class and on top of it she's one of DC's best fighters. Who can really match those stats? You'll have to look into the characters that appear into the cosmic aspects of their universe. Gods, magical beings and the higher end arcs of certain Marvel Characters. Because of different ways of writing. It isn't apparent because the matches for Wonder Woman don't occupy the same place in the Marvel universe. But they are there and Marvel does have characters more powerful then her. My point was though if you are only looking at their heroes they don't match-up well at all.Marvel has a few cosmics and reality manipulators that would have to do all the work.Most of the Heroes they believe to be their most powerful wouldn't even be able to take Supergirl. |
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Post by Crom-Cruach on Dec 24, 2010 15:51:33 GMT -5
My point was though if you are only looking at their heroes they don't match-up well at all.Marvel has a few cosmics and reality manipulators that would have to do all the work.Most of the Heroes they believe to be their most powerful wouldn't even be able to take Supergirl. And here is your mistake, you're applying the Marvel Paradigm to DC. That doesn't work. Marvel's focus is not the same and the spotlight doesn't go at the same place. They call most powerful those that are their most powerful "earth based". But what is earth based in Marvel and DC is not the same. |
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Silver
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The Fourth Precept
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Post by Silver on Dec 24, 2010 16:14:13 GMT -5
I think the major problem when comparing Marvel and DC is, as Crom said, DC writers prefers to write the epic in terms of sheer power. Marvel has done this as well with several characters. The major difference is that DC has more numerable powerhouse characters. They have myriads of class 100+ bricks, speedsters, energy manipulators, telepaths, etc. Marvel has characters with similar powers but by and large, in fewer numbers. On the other hand, compare Marvel and DC's street levelers. There are actually a greater amount of street level characters in Marvel that are actually recognizable than in DC. In fact, Marvel simply seems to have a greater number of street levelers, period. They appeal to different forms of writing. DC may have a larger quantity of powerful characters, but Marvel does have characters comparable to them. More numerous powerhouses =/= More powerful powerhouses.
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Post by Power NeXus on Dec 24, 2010 21:14:30 GMT -5
I kinda want to read all that, but I kinda don't.
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spidey_17
The Unstoppable Ledgernaut
With Great Power Comes Great.... suffering?
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Post by spidey_17 on Dec 24, 2010 22:03:34 GMT -5
Misconception: Peter is looking for a job and fighting Lizard.  LOL, on a serious note though, that were some pretty good points Crom. =] |
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spidey_17
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With Great Power Comes Great.... suffering?
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Post by spidey_17 on Dec 24, 2010 22:14:07 GMT -5
I kinda want to read all that, but I kinda don't. LOL ;D |
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Silver
The Unstoppable Ledgernaut
The Fourth Precept
Posts: 4,654
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Post by Silver on Dec 24, 2010 22:27:40 GMT -5
LOL, Spidey.
Misconception: Zoom is just a Flash villain, Flash has no trouble beating him, and Zoom loses to any character who can fly. (-_____________________- STUPIDEST...ARGUMENTS...EVER!!!)
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Beatboks
Team Buster Ledger
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Post by Beatboks on Dec 24, 2010 23:02:21 GMT -5
LOL, Spidey. Misconception: Zoom is just a Flash villain, Flash has no trouble beating him, and Zoom loses to any character who can fly. (-_____________________- STUPIDEST...ARGUMENTS...EVER!!!) And applying that same fact against any of the Flash's - OHH htey can't fly so they'll loose because X can. |
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Post by Power NeXus on Dec 24, 2010 23:11:20 GMT -5
Common misconception:
If a person with telepathy fights a person with no telepathic resistance, the person with telepathy will win the fight 100% of the time due to mindrape (because every telepath, regardless of morals or power limitations, goes straight for the mindrape at the very beginning of every single fight ever).
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Silver
The Unstoppable Ledgernaut
The Fourth Precept
Posts: 4,654
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Post by Silver on Dec 30, 2010 11:52:48 GMT -5
Misconception: If a character has technically never lost a battle, only stalemated or won their fights, throughout their career, they are invincible. (Terrible logic. Good track record =/= More powerful. It just means they never lost to characters of a certain power range.)
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spidey_17
The Unstoppable Ledgernaut
With Great Power Comes Great.... suffering?
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Post by spidey_17 on Dec 30, 2010 11:59:16 GMT -5
Silver, you are just jealous because people are more logical than you. |
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Post by Erik-El on Dec 30, 2010 11:59:17 GMT -5
Generally speaking, DC's heroes are more powerful than Marvel's.
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Post by Crom-Cruach on Dec 30, 2010 13:18:06 GMT -5
Generally speaking, DC's heroes are more powerful than Marvel's. no, I've already exposed why above. And when it comes to street levelers Marvel constantly tries to push the enveloppe |
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Post by Erik-El on Dec 30, 2010 13:24:45 GMT -5
@crom:
What Marvel heroes are actually more powerful?
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