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Post by Crom-Cruach on Dec 30, 2010 13:35:01 GMT -5
Whom compared to what in what type of powerset? Marvel has characters to match DC characters at every level.
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Post by Erik-El on Dec 30, 2010 13:38:44 GMT -5
Whom compared to what in what type of powerset? Marvel has characters to match DC characters at every level. I am talking about overall power for heroes in DC vs Marvel. What hero is more powerful than Superman? Spectre? Wonder Woman? Martian Manhunter? The five major Green Lanterns? |
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Post by Crom-Cruach on Dec 30, 2010 13:50:04 GMT -5
I am talking about overall power for heroes in DC vs Marvel. Overall neither is more powerful. What hero is more powerful than Superman? As a bruiser/brick? Thor matches him at his peak alone without any outside boost. Jobbing and depowering aside. Characters like a cosmics can also kick the crap out of him, etc. Living tribunal, some of the abstracts, etc can all either stalemate him or beat him. Doctor Strange at classic levels would beat him. There's lots more Thor wins, Nova, cosmic heroes would win. Hercules became a sky-father recently too. Silver Surfer is another example Cosmics, Doctor Strange. Nova etc. The five major Green Lanterns? Nova, Silver Surfer cosmics line heroes again. |
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Post by Erik-El on Dec 30, 2010 14:12:57 GMT -5
Thor does not match Superman. He is miles below Superman as a brick. Cosmics are not all heroes. I cannot think of one that really fits the description of hero actually.
I am pretty sure Living Tribunal also is not a hero. You are considering all beings in Marvel. I said heroes.
Thor loses to Wonder Woman. Hercules who so far, has not really displayed overly impressive abilities. DC Hercules was just as powerful as Marvel Hercules only smarter and Hippolyte was able to humble him in combat before she had powers. The only people that have a hard time with Hercules are those that fight on his terms. But I have gotten distracted....
Silver Surfer is also not a hero. He was at one point but since Annihilation, he is just a Herald again. Heralds are not heroes.
Cosmics.... Not heroes. Strange also would lose now that he has been depowered. But Classic would win. But then again, Marvel usually does well with its one good magic user.
Nova would not beat any of the five. Surfer would only win due to his ability to drain energy. That does not make him more powerful, just geared more towards those kinds of opponents.
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Vance Astro
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Post by Vance Astro on Dec 30, 2010 14:14:17 GMT -5
Crom I don't know why you think Strange & Nova can beat everybody but Wonder Woman and ANY GL would beat the sh#t outta them same with Manhunter.Nova & Strange stand more of a chance against them than him.
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Post by Power NeXus on Dec 30, 2010 14:18:46 GMT -5
Didn't we just have this conversation two pages ago?
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Post by Erik-El on Dec 30, 2010 14:20:21 GMT -5
Didn't we just have this conversation two pages ago? It is still going. |
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Post by Crom-Cruach on Dec 30, 2010 14:21:41 GMT -5
Thor does not match Superman. He is miles below Superman as a brick. Cosmics are not all heroes. I cannot think of one that really fits the description of hero actually. Classic and Ragnarok cycle sure as hell matched him in power. I am pretty sure Living Tribunal also is not a hero. You are considering all beings in Marvel. I said heroes. Spectre isn't really a hero either. He's an abstract/plot device/ agent of above Thor loses to Wonder Woman. Not at Classic and Ragnarok cycle levels. Silver Surfer is also not a hero. He was at one point but since Annihilation, he is just a Herald again. Heralds are not heroes. semantics. What happens in his narrative is irrelevant to who he is. He's still the same character. Strange also would lose now that he has been depowered. See my above post on the narrative differences of DC and Marvel. But fact is normal level strange would win. That does not make him more powerful, just geared more towards those kinds of opponents. He has comparable feats and a vast powerset to beat them. Ergo he is more powerful. |
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Vance Astro
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Post by Vance Astro on Dec 30, 2010 14:23:50 GMT -5
Why would classic Thor be more likely to be Wonder WOMAN, He could barely beat Wonder MAN....
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Post by Crom-Cruach on Dec 30, 2010 14:26:59 GMT -5
Why would classic Thor be more likely to be Wonder WOMAN, He could barely beat Wonder MAN.... In his own series, and arcs like the Ragnarok cycle. He's whitstood attacks that would have eaten entire solar systems. He's smashed with enough force to break time and space etc. Thor always jobs outside of his own arcs unless Marvel uses him as a convenient plot device to resolve a story. |
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Post by Erik-El on Dec 30, 2010 14:27:55 GMT -5
@crom:
If we are going to select any version of a particular character for use when considering who has more power out of Superman and Thor, I could just as easily pick Prime Superman or even Superman Prime.
Spectre is a hero. Hand of God true but he still does hero work. If you feel the need to not include him, fine. The others I listed are still plenty.
Again with selective versions. Okay Wonder Woman channeling the godwave would wreck Classic and Ragnarok Thor.
No. Surfer has changed quite a bit since Annihilation.
Normal level Strange is not even normal level Strange. Even before he was depowered to his current point, he was not as powerful as when he was Sorcerer Supreme. Hell even when modern Sorcerer Supreme Strange was, he was not as powerful as classic Strange.
What feats are you referencing?
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Vance Astro
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Post by Vance Astro on Dec 30, 2010 14:29:03 GMT -5
Why would classic Thor be more likely to be Wonder WOMAN, He could barely beat Wonder MAN.... In his own series, and arcs like the Ragnarok cycle. He's whitstood attacks that would have eaten entire solar systems. He's smashed with enough force to break time and space etc. Thor always jobs outside of his own arcs unless Marvel uses him as a convenient plot device to resolve a story. So now were going to blame his short comings on jobbing? |
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Post by Morpheus on Dec 30, 2010 14:34:42 GMT -5
@crom: If we are going to select any version of a particular character for use when considering who has more power out of Superman and Thor, I could just as easily pick Prime Superman or even Superman Prime. Spectre is a hero. Hand of God true but he still does hero work. If you feel the need to not include him, fine. The others I listed are still plenty. Again with selective versions. Okay Wonder Woman channeling the godwave would wreck Classic and Ragnarok Thor. No. Surfer has changed quite a bit since Annihilation. Normal level Strange is not even normal level Strange. Even before he was depowered to his current point, he was not as powerful as when he was Sorcerer Supreme. Hell even when modern Sorcerer Supreme Strange was, he was not as powerful as classic Strange. What feats are you referencing? |
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Post by Erik-El on Dec 30, 2010 14:36:02 GMT -5
@crom: If we are going to select any version of a particular character for use when considering who has more power out of Superman and Thor, I could just as easily pick Prime Superman or even Superman Prime. Spectre is a hero. Hand of God true but he still does hero work. If you feel the need to not include him, fine. The others I listed are still plenty. Again with selective versions. Okay Wonder Woman channeling the godwave would wreck Classic and Ragnarok Thor. No. Surfer has changed quite a bit since Annihilation. Normal level Strange is not even normal level Strange. Even before he was depowered to his current point, he was not as powerful as when he was Sorcerer Supreme. Hell even when modern Sorcerer Supreme Strange was, he was not as powerful as classic Strange. What feats are you referencing? Fine. Be that way. |
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Post by Crom-Cruach on Dec 30, 2010 14:36:34 GMT -5
Crom I don't know why you think Strange & Nova can beat everybody I never said they could beat everybody I said they can beat themStrange as Sorcerer supreme has mind raped Galactus, stalemated the living tribunal and beaten eternity. He'd sure as hell beat any Green Lantern, MM or WW. Erik-El: I'm referencing Thor's own series and fights he had in classic arcs. He smashed time and space, he's whitstood attacks that destroyed solar systems all feats that are canon. @cry Caine: Considering his classic feats and the most important Thor arcs, yes he get threated poorly and is written as jobbing most of the time. Thor should have walked all over the Sentry for example. The point is that Marvel's characters constantly get depowered because of the narrative differences in style between DC and Marvel Marvel hold to the "realism/human character/etc" bullshit that constantly either ignores their previous feats, writes them away or actually depowers them. DC goes the other way around and while they do get depowered. They grow in power again over time because DC's aim is the epic saga, the legendary, gods in the mortal world etc. I've explained this at lenght in my previous posts, read them. They laid out the problem with marvel. |
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Vance Astro
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Post by Vance Astro on Dec 30, 2010 14:37:34 GMT -5
Sentry should have walked all over Thor really...
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Post by Morpheus on Dec 30, 2010 14:37:45 GMT -5
I disagree. Being a herald was the result of him serving cosmic consonance. He helps evacuate the planets he brings Galactus to, and has saved the galaxy on multiple occasions after he was reinstated as a herald. He is resolutely demermined at helping Galactus survive, but there are lines he still refuses to cross. Fine. Be that way. |
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Vance Astro
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Post by Vance Astro on Dec 30, 2010 14:40:48 GMT -5
It doesn't matter if Marvel characters have been depowered or not.If you compare feats in any category the only thing Marvel has over them is magic and reality manipulation.DC has the more physically dominant roster.Whether Thor could BEAT Wonder Woman not is neither here not their...he's still not stronger than her.He's probably not faster than her either.All he has over her is magical ability and durability and durability only when it comes to certain types of attacks.Definitely not blunt force because she's taken hits that would have KO'd him.
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Post by Crom-Cruach on Dec 30, 2010 14:41:15 GMT -5
Sentry should have walked all over Thor really... Not at all. Thor has feats that outclass Sentry at every level. The only reason Sentry gets so hyped is either bad writing or the suns thing that has absolutely no evidence to back it up. |
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Post by Crom-Cruach on Dec 30, 2010 14:45:55 GMT -5
It doesn't matter if Marvel characters have been depowered or not. yes it does because it constantly puts them down to where they were before. Thor had at times feats of physical power in the same class as superman here's an example: Check this video, not very good overall but check the feats are canon: Every time any Marvel characters reaches any higher level, they get pulled down again by having their power taken away or they are written to job |
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