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Post by Phantom Stargrave on Aug 29, 2011 11:01:26 GMT -5
Hawkeye has been a long time member of the Avengers in the comics. I know. Doesn't mean he has a place there... |
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Post by ckal on Aug 29, 2011 11:03:29 GMT -5
Why not? The Avengers has always been a mix of powerhouses, mid level players, and street levelers.
It's like, why is Batman on the Justice League?
Who would you like to see instead?
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Post by Sherlock Laforet on Aug 29, 2011 11:11:33 GMT -5
Garfield cant be worse than McGuire.He was god aweful. Wasn't much of a fan of him either. Glad we agree I don't know how you can tell that from looking at a picture, but I doubt she will. I cant really but thats just one of those things that i will never let go |
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Post by Phantom Stargrave on Aug 29, 2011 11:11:43 GMT -5
Why not? The Avengers has always been a mix of powerhouses, mid level players, and street levelers. It's like, why is Batman on the Justice League? Who would you like to see instead? I never really thought Batman has a place on Justice League either. But at least you can justify that because it's fucking Batman and half the people on the League are terrified of the guy. Hawkeye doesn't even have that because that's cap's role on Avengers. But that's not really what I was talking about (If they can justify Black Widow, they can justify Hawkeye). I just don't like Hawkeye, and I don't understand what's so interesting about him. Subsequently, I don't understand why would they put him in an Avengers movie, other than the legacy reason of "Well we have to have Hawkeye because Hawkeye is always a part of Avengers." Which is a pretty stupid reason. |
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Post by ckal on Aug 29, 2011 11:24:03 GMT -5
Lol I can see that side of it because Batman is so ridiculous. I personally don't like it when the main Avengers team has a bunch of street levelers either. It doesn't make much sense to me.
Well I can definitely tell you that is not the sole reason because Ant-Man and Wasp are not on the team in the movie. It was easy to add BW since she already appeared in IM2, it was easy to squeeze in a cameo for Hawkeye in Thor, and Ant-Man and Wasp would take setting up and explaining, which would take the focus away from important story development in the Avengers movie.
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Post by Lord Barbatos on Aug 29, 2011 12:31:27 GMT -5
Widow looks like she's gained some fat ,but the others look cool.
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Post by ckal on Aug 29, 2011 12:43:12 GMT -5
Widow looks like she's gained some fat I don't see that at all. I think this new Hulk design already looks better than the one in TIH. |
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Post by Phantom Stargrave on Aug 29, 2011 14:04:00 GMT -5
Lol I can see that side of it because Batman is so ridiculous. I personally don't like it when the main Avengers team has a bunch of street levelers either. It doesn't make much sense to me. I tend to distinguish between Batman proper and JLA Batman. Batman proper is Batman as he appears in his owns books, a semi-realistic character with his set of skills and flaws who works well in his own setting. But any time Batman gets exported to another comic, he gets bumped a hundred levels up to the point where he can give GODS a run for their money through nothing but sheer prep and badassery. You know, because no one wants to admit that Batman as he should be would just slow Superman down. The question still remains why put him at all. |
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Post by ckal on Aug 29, 2011 14:12:42 GMT -5
I completely agree about Batman. Just because he is one of the most popular characters there is, doesn't mean he all of a sudden doesn't have any limits in any scenario. Its like, are you trying to tell me that if Batman were to fight Odin and had a year of prep, that there would be any outcome other than Odin turning Batman's brain to mush? Or if he were to fight Thor, for example?
I understand the question still remains, but there is also at least a partial answer out there that I just gave you. He's a long standing Avenger in the comics, Avengers teams have always been a mix of power levels, Hawkeye is a fan favorite character, they wanted to expand the roster for the movie, and he is extremely easy and simple to set up, introduce, and explain why he is there which won't take away from Avengers story time.
I guess you didn't see it, but I asked you, "Who would you rather see?" and why?
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Post by Phantom Stargrave on Aug 29, 2011 14:35:02 GMT -5
Your explanation basically amounts to "He's always been an Avenger so let's put him in" which, as I said, is stupid. The Avengers already have two street level, one middle and two heavy hitters, so I'd say they're pretty balanced out. And for the life of me I still can't figure out what makes Hawkeye so interesting to be a fan favorite.
But hey, I don't know. Maybe it's just my bias because I think a guy with a bow and an arrow in a world of guns, not to mention powered armors and thunder gods, is completely fucking retarded.
For your other question, I really wouldn't add anyone in aside from the guys already introduced. Hell, if I had to put someone in I'd go for another female character. Ms. Marvel maybe (though I grant you that Hawkeye would be considerably easier to introduce), or someone like that.
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Post by ckal on Aug 29, 2011 15:11:02 GMT -5
Your explanation basically amounts to "He's always been an Avenger so let's put him in" which, as I said, is stupid. The Avengers already have two street level, one middle and two heavy hitters, so I'd say they're pretty balanced out. And for the life of me I still can't figure out what makes Hawkeye so interesting to be a fan favorite. My explanation doesn't 'basically amount to' that at all. That he is a long standing Avengers in the comics is literally 1/5 of the reasons I gave you. There's a reason why they chose Hawkeye over other long standing Avengers like Scarlett Witch, Ant-Man, Wasp, Vision, etc., and that's what a few of my other points touch on. I obviously don't know they exact reasons why as I'm not privy to information on Marvel's decision making process which they don't decide to share to the public, but there are the reasons that I would see coming into play. Of course it doesn't make much sense and I think most people would agree with you. But I also think that is part of his appeal. He is a just a great athlete, world's best marksman, his equipment, as well as his personality. But I think all of this, plus that fact that just being a regular guy among super powered heroes makes him more relatable to readers, is why he is a fan favorite. This is why I'm fine with having Black Widow and Hawkeye on the team. They are essentially supporting characters just to help fill out the roster for the big 4, instead of trying to add other big time heroes to the mix. Ms. Marvel would be cool, and I'm sure we are going to see her on the big screen in the future. |
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Post by Phantom Stargrave on Aug 29, 2011 15:36:16 GMT -5
My explanation doesn't 'basically amount to' that at all. That he is a long standing Avengers in the comics is literally 1/5 of the reasons I gave you. There's a reason why they chose Hawkeye over other long standing Avengers like Scarlett Witch, Ant-Man, Wasp, Vision, etc., and that's what a few of my other points touch on. I obviously don't know they exact reasons why as I'm not privy to information on Marvel's decision making process which they don't decide to share to the public, but there are the reasons that I would see coming into play. The reason they take him over the others is that the others are even less likeable (Ant man and Wasp) or carry far more baggage (Vision and Wanda). That doesn't explain why they put him in in the first place. Now, the answer which presents itself, as you've mentioned, is that he serves as audience surrogate, which I'll address down. Give him guns. Really, I don't have a problem with him being an athlete and normal human on a team of supermen. My problem is that arrows are stupid. I don't have a problem with this in comics because I'm used to and can swallow a great amount of unrealistic shit from my comics, but I demand my movies to have a greater standard of realism. Of course, the obvious answer is that, without arrows, there is no Hawkeye, but this is part of point: Hawkeye is stupid. You can make the exact same arguments for Green Arrow, except Green Arrow, with the added quests for social justice, basically invokes the imagery of Robin Hood, which is kinda cool, he has that folkloric theme going on. Hawkeye doesn't have even that. He's just a guy with a bow and arrows. Just a guy with a completely inefficient and impractical weapon rendered pointless else in the modern world. Ms Marvel definitely deserves attention. Though I doubt that costume is going to fly. ;D |
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Post by Morpheus on Aug 29, 2011 15:41:28 GMT -5
You know Hawkeye has a localised nuke arrow, right?
Pointless my foot. 
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Post by Phantom Stargrave on Aug 29, 2011 15:43:18 GMT -5
You know Hawkeye has a localised nuke arrow, right?
Pointless my foot. Warmaker had a nuclear bullet. So yeah.  |
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Post by Admin on Aug 29, 2011 15:45:42 GMT -5
Jeremy Renner solos this thread.
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Post by Morpheus on Aug 29, 2011 15:46:48 GMT -5
Unless Warmaker is an Avenger...Then right back at ya.
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Post by Phantom Stargrave on Aug 29, 2011 15:49:00 GMT -5
It's a proof of concept.  |
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Post by Morpheus on Aug 29, 2011 15:52:02 GMT -5
But not proof against Hawkeye's established arsenal.
Also, presuming this is based off Ultimate Hawkeye, then he will likely have guns, as well. Sorry to burst your bubble.
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Post by Admin on Aug 29, 2011 15:55:31 GMT -5
But not proof against Hawkeye's established arsenal.
Also, presuming this is based off Ultimate Hawkeye, then he will likely have guns, as well. Sorry to burst your bubble. Have you seen Thor yet? |
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Post by Morpheus on Aug 29, 2011 15:56:35 GMT -5
But not proof against Hawkeye's established arsenal.
Also, presuming this is based off Ultimate Hawkeye, then he will likely have guns, as well. Sorry to burst your bubble. Have you seen Thor yet? |
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