creator
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Post by creator on Nov 10, 2012 10:14:47 GMT -5
The snake only weighed 10 tons. That is why Thor was able to throw it like he did. Well I've always said that Superman was stronger than Thor
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drgnx
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Post by drgnx on Nov 10, 2012 14:36:42 GMT -5
But Loki is actually a Frost Giant, do Frost giants and ... Giants also have this genetic property? Here is what im considering, Loki might magically appear to be asguardian, and i would hope Odin should be competent enough to ensure that the magic ensured mating with full asguardians might yield full asguardian children (if he hoped Loki would never have found out his origins), but would that magic allow Loki to pass such properties to children with other races? If we assumed yes, then both races might need this 3x property to ensure things were not diluted. Well Loki had the 3x density. So I would lean towards the Serpent having it too. I wouldn't bank strongly on heredity considering his questionable genetic makeup, not to mention their resemblance, certainly some family traits were not passed on.
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Post by creator on Nov 11, 2012 18:25:04 GMT -5
Well Loki had the 3x density. So I would lean towards the Serpent having it too. I wouldn't bank strongly on heredity considering his questionable genetic makeup, not to mention their resemblance, certainly some family traits were not passed on. That's true but Loki, the progeny of Frost Giants, had the density trait despite Loki looking like an Asgardian, so we already have a trait manifest while other racial traits were not apparent.
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drgnx
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Post by drgnx on Nov 11, 2012 22:31:38 GMT -5
I wouldn't bank strongly on heredity considering his questionable genetic makeup, not to mention their resemblance, certainly some family traits were not passed on. That's true but Loki, the progeny of Frost Giants, had the density trait despite Loki looking like an Asgardian, so we already have a trait manifest while other racial traits were not apparent. hmmm. .. .I don't think I was clear on that. Loki's form is granted because Odin's magic. What this means is that while he is in his Asguardian from he has the full properties of an Asguadian. So, for instance, if Loki were to revert to his "Frost Giant" form he could lose some of those traits because if the magic wore off, or is not active in his native form? (like Thor's human form concept) In other words this would be a magical property tied to his form and not genetics. On that note, lets assume that works in a way that allows Loki to to pass these magical traits on to his offspring. Mating with a non-asguardian would dilute these traits. Magical traits that are sent to children would likely have similar restrictions as on the parent even if they are diluted with another parent. What I could point out is that the spell Loki has is magical and grants him his traits while in his Asguardian form, and as this serpent does not have one, it would not have such traits.
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creator
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Post by creator on Nov 11, 2012 23:17:00 GMT -5
hmmm. .. .I don't think I was clear on that. Loki's form is granted because Odin's magic. What this means is that while he is in his Asguardian from he has the full properties of an Asguadian. So, for instance, if Loki were to revert to his "Frost Giant" form he could lose some of those traits because if the magic wore off, or is not active in his native form? (like Thor's human form concept) In other words this would be a magical property tied to his form and not genetics. On that note, lets assume that works in a way that allows Loki to to pass these magical traits on to his offspring. Mating with a non-asguardian would dilute these traits. Magical traits that are sent to children would likely have similar restrictions as on the parent even if they are diluted with another parent. What I could point out is that the spell Loki has is magical and grants him his traits while in his Asguardian form, and as this serpent does not have one, it would not have such traits. When has Loki's physical form ever been dependent upon a spell of Odin? He was simply a midget of his race.
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Post by Erik-El on Nov 12, 2012 0:22:46 GMT -5
When has Loki's physical form ever been dependent upon a spell of Odin? I don't know much about 616 Loki but to answer your question of when, Movie-verse Loki's form is dependent upon Odin's spell.
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drgnx
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Post by drgnx on Nov 12, 2012 2:12:33 GMT -5
When has Loki's physical form ever been dependent upon a spell of Odin? I don't know much about 616 Loki but to answer your question of when, Movie-verse Loki's form is dependent upon Odin's spell. Pretty much this; Being a midget is one thing, but not looking like a frost giant wouldn't make sense, so I figured the comics might be like the movie story, which would coincide with Thor's transformations, as it does not state that Frost Giants have these trait, so I figured it was related to his form. If not, then maybe laufey's wife cheated with an Asguardian ..., But I'd still challenge the reliability of inheritance, If Loki was a full blooded Frost Giant who just happened to developed these traits out of nowhere, its just as easy that, when you consider how "out there" some of his offspring is, that his looks were not the only thing he didn't pass on to them. Perhaps he is genetically unstable...
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creator
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Post by creator on Nov 12, 2012 22:00:11 GMT -5
When has Loki's physical form ever been dependent upon a spell of Odin? I don't know much about 616 Loki but to answer your question of when, Movie-verse Loki's form is dependent upon Odin's spell. I know but movieverse Loki's history is not that of 616 Loki. I don't know much about 616 Loki but to answer your question of when, Movie-verse Loki's form is dependent upon Odin's spell. Pretty much this; Being a midget is one thing, but not looking like a frost giant wouldn't make sense, so I figured the comics might be like the movie story, which would coincide with Thor's transformations, as it does not state that Frost Giants have these trait, so I figured it was related to his form. If not, then maybe laufey's wife cheated with an Asguardian ..., But I'd still challenge the reliability of inheritance, If Loki was a full blooded Frost Giant who just happened to developed these traits out of nowhere, its just as easy that, when you consider how "out there" some of his offspring is, that his looks were not the only thing he didn't pass on to them. Perhaps he is genetically unstable... You made an assumption that both versions of Loki's history were the same and they aren't. I don't recall 616 Loki relying on Odin's enchantments to conceal/modify his nature. Rock Trolls, I believe, have a flesh density about twice that of human. Frost giants may also have a higher flesh density as well.
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drgnx
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Post by drgnx on Nov 12, 2012 23:24:59 GMT -5
You made an assumption that both versions of Loki's history were the same and they aren't. I don't recall 616 Loki relying on Odin's enchantments to conceal/modify his nature. Fair enough, on my assumption, since it isn't in the comic, I would still leave it as a possibility, but with weak 616 supporting evidence. But I'd also point out that there is even less proof that the Frost Giants have have this trait, since Loki has it and it was associated with Asguardian's and not Frost Giants and even less reliable when passing it on to his mutated offspring. Rock Trolls, I believe, have a flesh density about twice that of human. Frost giants may also have a higher flesh density as well. But Rock Trolls are not Frost Giants nor are they like 50 feet tall; 3 times density at that height running around an ice-world and they would probably drown from breaking through the planets ice..
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Post by creator on Nov 13, 2012 0:23:14 GMT -5
You made an assumption that both versions of Loki's history were the same and they aren't. I don't recall 616 Loki relying on Odin's enchantments to conceal/modify his nature. Fair enough, on my assumption, since it isn't in the comic, I would still leave it as a possibility, but with weak 616 supporting evidence. But I'd also point out that there is even less proof that the Frost Giants have have this trait, since Loki has it and it was associated with Asguardian's and not Frost Giants and even less reliable when passing it on to his mutated offspring. Rock Trolls, I believe, have a flesh density about twice that of human. Frost giants may also have a higher flesh density as well. But Rock Trolls are not Frost Giants nor are they like 50 feet tall; 3 times density at that height running around an ice-world and they would probably drown from breaking through the planets ice.. You do realize that Asgardian gods put down as much mass per unit area (foot cross sectional area to mass ratio) as would the frost giants, if their flesh were 3 times as dense as a humans. And the Asgardian gods don't fall through the ice......
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drgnx
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Post by drgnx on Nov 13, 2012 2:35:45 GMT -5
Fair enough, on my assumption, since it isn't in the comic, I would still leave it as a possibility, but with weak 616 supporting evidence. But I'd also point out that there is even less proof that the Frost Giants have have this trait, since Loki has it and it was associated with Asguardian's and not Frost Giants and even less reliable when passing it on to his mutated offspring. But Rock Trolls are not Frost Giants nor are they like 50 feet tall; 3 times density at that height running around an ice-world and they would probably drown from breaking through the planets ice.. You do realize that Asgardian gods put down as much mass per unit area (foot cross sectional area to mass ratio) as would the frost giants, if their flesh were 3 times as dense as a humans. And the Asgardian gods don't fall through the ice...... Well, we can temporarily ignore that I was joking ; but you are ' partially' correct. But I'd assume everything still has its maximum weight. Increasing the surface you need to support puts additional pressure on the surrounding areas that actually provide that support. So I'd bet there are diminishing returns on how much weight you can distribute across a surface (proportional to size when close to breaking threshold of any specific area). The other thing to point out would be the thickness of the Ice, and uniformity of the distribution of ice (ex: no weak spots in the increased support area) ... There are probably a few other things I don't care to articulate right now but long story short, while I brought it up, I was not serious and I certainly wasn't wagering any part of my argument on them falling through ice... If I was looking to go down that avenue, it would have been more along the lines of questioning the rational of giving them the strength through increased size and then complementing it with increased density, which in itself also seems to imply increased strength and durability. But I don't see a need, as Loki and his children seem to be mutations/defects/"non-standard-whatevers", so at the end of the day, trying to use Loki as a template to infer anything only creates mischief.
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Painkiller
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Post by Painkiller on Dec 11, 2012 0:47:15 GMT -5
Could we rank Superboy at 15?
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Post by Erik-El on Dec 11, 2012 2:41:17 GMT -5
Could we rank Superboy at 15? Reasons?
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Painkiller
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Post by Painkiller on Dec 11, 2012 5:26:23 GMT -5
Could we rank Superboy at 15? Reasons? He's lifted cruise liners before, those things weigh 2000-30,000 tons.
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Post by Erik-El on Dec 11, 2012 16:32:19 GMT -5
He's lifted cruise liners before, those things weigh 2000-30,000 tons. Which version? PC or N52? Did he use his super strength or TK?
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Post by jakefury on Dec 11, 2012 17:09:02 GMT -5
Out of curiosity, what's Mark Grayson's high end strength feat?
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Painkiller
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Post by Painkiller on Dec 11, 2012 17:20:31 GMT -5
He's lifted cruise liners before, those things weigh 2000-30,000 tons. Which version? PC or N52? Did he use his super strength or TK? Pre-Flashpoint. And he has used his own strength in some occasions and TK on others, so I guess he's as strong in TK is he is in super strength.
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Post by Erik-El on Dec 11, 2012 17:23:31 GMT -5
Out of curiosity, what's Mark Grayson's high end strength feat? I can't remember but he has some good ones. The one I do remember came half way through the series when he was working out for the first time on panel. Working out with 400 tons I believe.
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Post by jakefury on Dec 12, 2012 18:04:37 GMT -5
Mighty impressive for Mark.
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creator
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Post by creator on Dec 17, 2012 23:58:09 GMT -5
Out of curiosity, what's Mark Grayson's high end strength feat? I can't remember but he has some good ones. The one I do remember came half way through the series when he was working out for the first time on panel. Working out with 400 tons I believe. I'm sure he know has feats that put him above this. Didn't he contributes lifting a cruise ship with that female Viltrumite. Does anyone have a scan of that?
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