creator
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Post by creator on Aug 23, 2011 6:49:00 GMT -5
I thought had seen one of my earlier posts which put up some figures for Hal Jordan, which are the same as those suggested for Sinestro ? Anyhow its a good challenge However the first image does not really support an argument for distance because Distance = the range at which energies can be manipulated, not the range that a beam of light / force can be shot. The second image brings it home that he can manipulate over vast distance but we can only base the estimations on feats we have seen and no-one (not even me!) is infallible As the distance to the moon is 250k miles, that would make that feat a rank 18 for distance. However like you said Alan was boosted at the time. Sinestro, along with most other prominent GLs have shown (by the nature of their deep space missions) that they can control probes etc from deep space when they investigate planets etc. These distances can be literally millions of miles. Maybe its just that Alan has not had this kind of mission to "show his wares' so to speak. What would you suggest ?
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Beatboks
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Post by Beatboks on Aug 23, 2011 7:43:45 GMT -5
I thought had seen one of my earlier posts which put up some figures for Hal Jordan, which are the same as those suggested for Sinestro ? Anyhow its a good challenge However the first image does not really support an argument for distance because Distance = the range at which energies can be manipulated, not the range that a beam of light / force can be shot. The second image brings it home that he can manipulate over vast distance but we can only base the estimations on feats we have seen and no-one (not even me!) is infallible As the distance to the moon is 250k miles, that would make that feat a rank 18 for distance. However like you said Alan was boosted at the time. Sinestro, along with most other prominent GLs have shown (by the nature of their deep space missions) that they can control probes etc from deep space when they investigate planets etc. These distances can be literally millions of miles. Maybe its just that Alan has not had this kind of mission to "show his wares' so to speak. What would you suggest ? I'm hunting for a particular scan now (might take a while). From a JLA/ JSA cross over. they were in "limbo or other dimension and Hal failed to scan and find the way through to their dimensions where Alan did. There was another in the retelling of his origin where he scanned with the ring into E-1 universe to OA. He also scanned to locate the E-2 Universe Guardians after meeting Hal. All are pretty old (and obviously questionable canon wise). But all other levels post COIE were the same as prior and with the Sentinel upgrade increased. I'll find some of them hopefully soon (day or 2)
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creator
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Post by creator on Aug 23, 2011 9:08:28 GMT -5
I'm hunting for a particular scan now (might take a while). From a JLA/ JSA cross over. they were in "limbo or other dimension and Hal failed to scan and find the way through to their dimensions where Alan did. There was another in the retelling of his origin where he scanned with the ring into E-1 universe to OA. He also scanned to locate the E-2 Universe Guardians after meeting Hal. All are pretty old (and obviously questionable canon wise). But all other levels post COIE were the same as prior and with the Sentinel upgrade increased. I'll find some of them hopefully soon (day or 2) Great.
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creator
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Post by creator on Aug 23, 2011 9:09:22 GMT -5
I have only listed the most powerful energy manipulation for the relevant characters scored so far, so to avoid a very busy grid.
Compiled List
Rank 1
Rank 2
Rank 3
Rank 4 Molten Man – Heat
Rank 5 Scorpion - Plasma (Object) Shocker – Vibrations / Air
Rank 6 Jolt – Electricity Strong Guy – Kinetic
Rank 7 Bishop – All but Kinetic Black Canary – Sonic Blizzard – Cold (Object) Crimson Dynamo – Light/Radioactivity Sebastian Shaw – Kinetic
Rank 8 Black Lightning – Electricity Cyborg – Sonic (Object) Cyclops – Force Havok – Plasma Ikaris – Heat/Light/Force Siryn - Sonic
Rank 9 Dazzler – Absorption – Sound/Light Electro – Electricity Hyperion – Heat Liberty Bell – Sonic Lightning Lord – Electricity Pyro – Flame
Rank 10 Iron Man – Magnetics Martian Manhunter – Heat Rank 11 Captain Cold – Cold (Object) Captain Mar-vell – Light Firestar – Microwaves Power Girl – Heat Rank 12 Big Barda – Force (Object) Captain Marvel – Lightning Human Torch (Storm) – Heat/Flame Red Hulk - Absorption (not psionic or magical) Red Tornado - Wind Rank 13 Blue Beetle (Reyes) – Plasma Gladiator – Heat Invisible Woman – Force
Rank 14 Damage – Absorption/Fusion Energy Ice Man – Thermal Energy Rank 15 Nova – Absorption/Gravity/Light Starman (Ted Knight) – Gravity Thor – Absorption
Rank 16 Annihilus – Cosmic Energy (Object) Black Bolt – Electron Manipulation Superman (Pre Flashpoint) – Heat Rank 17 Binary – Absorption – All/Light Magneto – Magnetics Storm - Electromagnetism/Thermal/Wind Terrax – Disintegration (Object) Vulcan – All Rank 18 Airwalker – Power Cosmic Destroyer – Disintegration/Magnetism/Heat/Plasma Firelord – Heat/Flame Stardust - Power Cosmic Rank 19 Sentry - Light/Heat Silver Surfer – Power Cosmic Starman (Will Peyton) – Light / Heat
Rank 20 Alan Scott – Force Captain Atom – Absorption/Heat/Flame Graviton – Gravity Green Lantern (Jordan) – Force Sinestro - Force Rank 21
Rank 22
Rank 23
Rank 24
Rank 25
Rank 26 Darkseid – Omega Effect
Rank 27
Rank 28
Rank 29 Abraxas – Power Cosmic Galactus – Power Cosmic
Rank 30 Eternity – All Living Tribunal – All Phoenix (J Grey) – All
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Beatboks
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Post by Beatboks on Aug 24, 2011 7:58:14 GMT -5
I'm hunting for a particular scan now (might take a while). From a JLA/ JSA cross over. they were in "limbo or other dimension and Hal failed to scan and find the way through to their dimensions where Alan did. There was another in the retelling of his origin where he scanned with the ring into E-1 universe to OA. He also scanned to locate the E-2 Universe Guardians after meeting Hal. All are pretty old (and obviously questionable canon wise). But all other levels post COIE were the same as prior and with the Sentinel upgrade increased. I'll find some of them hopefully soon (day or 2) Great. Damn it!! I'm absolutely certain I've used those images in a debate on CV (having scanned them ages ago). I just spent the last hour and a half sorting all the scans in my scan folder in to folders and sub folders (Titans and enemies containing folder of each titan + Cheshire and Slade) (E-2 same etc). I didn't find them (though interesting I had over 200 Dr fate scans to mull through). Now that I'm finished do i finally remember deleting shit loads just over a year ago - Back to the original sources (cause no way am I going through the mess that is my CV images). This will take a little longer. At least I'm reasonably sure the first one is in JLA #22 *where the f#$ have I put that*
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Beatboks
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Post by Beatboks on Aug 24, 2011 9:43:08 GMT -5
Found 1 scan that definitely points to range. GL v2 # 61. After returned to E-2 after teaming up with Hal. Alan orders his ring to "get rid of all evil everywhere. the result is all life on E-2 vanishes from existence. I'll upload scans tomorrow. I've reviewed two JLA/JSA crossovers so far and Hal and Alan emulate feats in both (plus two GL team ups SA) but no other range stuff so far.
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creator
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Post by creator on Aug 24, 2011 12:09:40 GMT -5
Found 1 scan that definitely points to range. GL v2 # 61. After returned to E-2 after teaming up with Hal. Alan orders his ring to "get rid of all evil everywhere. the result is all life on E-2 vanishes from existence. I'll upload scans tomorrow. I've reviewed two JLA/JSA crossovers so far and Hal and Alan emulate feats in both (plus two GL team ups SA) but no other range stuff so far. Well that's enough for rating 16 for distance but that's no more than before. The area of effect is still rating 20 based on this. Keep looking, we have plenty of time and new examples are easily reviewed.
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creator
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Post by creator on Aug 24, 2011 14:57:57 GMT -5
And still more for review Songbird - Force/Sonic (Object)Distance: 6 Area of Effect: 8 Power Level: 8 Overall: 8 Sunspot - Absorption - Solar/Heat/Light/PlasmaDistance: 4 Area of Effect: 8 Power Level: 8 Overall: 7 Ultron - Absorption - EM Radiations/Plasma/Electricity/Gravity Distance: 4 Area of Effect: 8 Power Level: 14 Overall: 10 Vision - Heat/Light/MicrowavesDistance: 1 Area of Effect: 6 Power Level: 9 Overall: 7 Guardian - Electromagnetism/PlasmaDistance: 5 Area of Effect: 8 Power Level: 9 Overall: 8 Wasp - ElectricityDistance: 1 Area of Effect: 3 Power Level: 6 Overall: 4 Watcher - Power CosmicDistance: 25 Area of Effect: 23 Power Level: 24 Overall: 24 Wildfire - AntimatterDistance: 5 Area of Effect: 8 Power Level: 16 Overall: 12 Yellowjacket - Electricity (Object)Distance: 1 Area of Effect: 4 Power Level: 6 Overall: 5 Green Goblin - Electricity (Object)Distance: 1 Area of Effect: 4 Power Level: 6 Overall: 5
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creator
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Post by creator on Aug 24, 2011 15:04:29 GMT -5
Through out this process I have been looking at my own collection of comics (not always easy when I'm at my fiancé's house...) and respect threads dotted all over the Internet to identify the feats for the characters listed in this thread (and the others grids) but I am coming up short on the Stranger (the marvel one). His feats are......few and far between and vary a lot.
So where do we think he sits in this table ?
Stranger - Power Cosmic Distance: ? Area of Effect: ? Power Level: ? Overall: ?
Are there other characters that we should rank ?
I'm thinking we need more DC characters.
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Post by Strafe Prower on Aug 24, 2011 18:21:14 GMT -5
I can give you Geo-Force's respect thread to look at. This grid is a bit too much for me to give an accurate judgement. I'm not a very good judge of distance and such.
Same with Creeper's Sonic Laugh and Black Condor's Wind Manipulation.
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Post by ckal on Aug 24, 2011 19:15:43 GMT -5
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creator
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Post by creator on Aug 25, 2011 1:17:04 GMT -5
I can give you Geo-Force's respect thread to look at. This grid is a bit too much for me to give an accurate judgement. I'm not a very good judge of distance and such. Same with Creeper's Sonic Laugh and Black Condor's Wind Manipulation. I'll go check them out and then post some thoughts. I will list out my thoughts and then you can tell me if you agree.
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creator
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Post by creator on Aug 25, 2011 6:55:52 GMT -5
Alright creator, like I promised a while ago, here are the scans for Thor vs. Glory. I am providing the entire encounter so you can get the best idea. Glory's attack is obviously hugely powerful, originating from a being with the strength of 10,000 gods (although I would wager most are nowhere as powerful as Thor - think of the Asgardians for instance). He returns the blast, potentially with interest as he has done with energy attacks in the past. The key thing here for me is that Mjolnir does not crack and break as it did with Thor's God Blast when used against Exitar. Admittedly Mjolnir has only broken once from the at least 3 or 4 tinmes the God Blast was used but it suggests the Glory attack was less than the Godblast. Othere than that there is little to suggest how powerful the blast was in this feat
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Beatboks
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Post by Beatboks on Aug 25, 2011 9:51:53 GMT -5
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Beatboks
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Post by Beatboks on Aug 26, 2011 3:14:49 GMT -5
Couple more for Alan s1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff368/beatboks01/?action=view¤t=Alaninspace-hyperspace.jpgs1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff368/beatboks01/?action=view¤t=alanvisitsDoibysworld.jpgThere's also Green Lantern Quarterly # 7 to give full context I'd have to post scans of practically the entire issue. Another GL Tormasque who is also a mystic comes to Alan for help. Several of the highest regarded GL's having already fallen. Basically Alan scanned and tracked the universe to this s1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff368/beatboks01/?action=view¤t=GL_Corps_Quarterly-07-43.jpg Hardly close by Earth. In many JLA/JSA crossovers (that I've just re-read so I'm actually loving having to look for these scans - Ironically the TWO I was after are amongst the 4 I haven't found yet) Alan and Hal have done things together, scanned together and always been shown as equal. Alan could equally deal with Power ring as Hal. I also remember thanks to re-reading the All Star Squadron side of a JLA/JS/ASS crossover that in that one Alan when he was on the devastated Earth Prime (courtesy of Per Degaton stealing the Nukes from the Cuban crisis) scanned that universe and Identified (by the lack of Guardians and other races planets he knew to be in others) that they were on E- Prime and not 1 or 2. Like when they fought along side/against the LOSH in facing Mordru (30th Century version). Alan was equally able to track the artifacts as Hal through space. There's also the issue where he lost his weakness to wood because of his beam crossing the one containing the essence of Krona. Alan went to e-1 to tell Hal and Krona possessed him and easily using his ring defeated Hal. In a GL 80 page Giant, Alan reaches out from the dimension that he and the JSA have been fighting ragnorak to convince several GL's to look for him, the thing that ends up bringing him back. Also in issue (the last) of Green Lantern Quarterly. It told the tale of Abin Sur facing an enemy on Earth during WWII. the enemy had defeated Alan and Flash and Abin then entered teh fray. He had a weapon made that was specifiaclly created to deal with the rings weakness to yellow and using it took Abin Sur's ring. Abin than took Alan's and s1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff368/beatboks01/?action=view¤t=green_lantern_corps_quarterly_08_11.jpgNot to mention in recent JSA after the JLA JSA crossover. Alan also reached out to Sorcerer world (the one Mordru is Ruler of in current time) to communicate and organize treaty meetings, as well as many other dimensions.
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Geraldthesloth
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Post by Geraldthesloth on Aug 26, 2011 3:18:03 GMT -5
How about Quasar? we've seen him be able to manipulate energy before, plus his Quantum energy is very potent.
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Post by Gender on Aug 26, 2011 4:09:58 GMT -5
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creator
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Post by creator on Aug 26, 2011 6:39:01 GMT -5
Couple more for Alan s1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff368/beatboks01/?action=view¤t=Alaninspace-hyperspace.jpgs1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff368/beatboks01/?action=view¤t=alanvisitsDoibysworld.jpgThere's also Green Lantern Quarterly # 7 to give full context I'd have to post scans of practically the entire issue. Another GL Tormasque who is also a mystic comes to Alan for help. Several of the highest regarded GL's having already fallen. Basically Alan scanned and tracked the universe to this s1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff368/beatboks01/?action=view¤t=GL_Corps_Quarterly-07-43.jpg Hardly close by Earth. In many JLA/JSA crossovers (that I've just re-read so I'm actually loving having to look for these scans - Ironically the TWO I was after are amongst the 4 I haven't found yet) Alan and Hal have done things together, scanned together and always been shown as equal. Alan could equally deal with Power ring as Hal. I also remember thanks to re-reading the All Star Squadron side of a JLA/JS/ASS crossover that in that one Alan when he was on the devastated Earth Prime (courtesy of Per Degaton stealing the Nukes from the Cuban crisis) scanned that universe and Identified (by the lack of Guardians and other races planets he knew to be in others) that they were on E- Prime and not 1 or 2. Like when they fought along side/against the LOSH in facing Mordru (30th Century version). Alan was equally able to track the artifacts as Hal through space. There's also the issue where he lost his weakness to wood because of his beam crossing the one containing the essence of Krona. Alan went to e-1 to tell Hal and Krona possessed him and easily using his ring defeated Hal. In a GL 80 page Giant, Alan reaches out from the dimension that he and the JSA have been fighting ragnorak to convince several GL's to look for him, the thing that ends up bringing him back. Also in issue (the last) of Green Lantern Quarterly. It told the tale of Abin Sur facing an enemy on Earth during WWII. the enemy had defeated Alan and Flash and Abin then entered teh fray. He had a weapon made that was specifiaclly created to deal with the rings weakness to yellow and using it took Abin Sur's ring. Abin than took Alan's and s1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff368/beatboks01/?action=view¤t=green_lantern_corps_quarterly_08_11.jpgNot to mention in recent JSA after the JLA JSA crossover. Alan also reached out to Sorcerer world (the one Mordru is Ruler of in current time) to communicate and organize treaty meetings, as well as many other dimensions. This is why input from others is essential. Beatboks thanks for the info. Well from the examples you posted we can see that he can detect or be alerted to issues that are specific to him from huge distances away. Can I suggest you PM me the thought you have on new ratings for Alan so we can discuss them through.
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creator
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Post by creator on Aug 26, 2011 6:45:06 GMT -5
I don't think he has much more heavy weight examples than that but he does however have a lot of feats where by he has struggled with lower level feats. As with GL (Alan Scott), a few good examples of the character being at the level proposed are fine to show that it is not just the current writers whimsy that Quasar be that powerful. For instance I have not accounted for GL (Rayner) encapsulating the energies of a sun, which would push his ranks up hugely as I have only seen him do that level of feat once. Through all of this we need to strike a balance. I don't want to do a dis-service to a character and under-rate them but also I don't want to over-rate them either. So any help from you and Greald on Quasar's rating would really be helpful
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creator
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Post by creator on Aug 26, 2011 15:38:57 GMT -5
How about Quasar? we've seen him be able to manipulate energy before, plus his Quantum energy is very potent. After a quick review of some of Quasar's feats, perhaps the following might be acceptable, Quasar - Absorption - EM Radiations/LightDistance: 17 Area of Effect: 20 Power Level: 21 Overall: 20 Thoughts ?
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