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Post by Crom-Cruach on Jan 11, 2011 19:05:28 GMT -5
But as these forums go, the characters from both heavily dominate the conversations held by an international audience. This isn't true, it dominates conversations by American audiences, not international audiences. In Europe and Asia things are very, very different. There Marvel and DC are actually very small. The big dogs in Europe for example, are companies like Dargaud and Le Lombard. Which completely trump Marvel and DC in popularity. In Japan, american comics are a non-factor compared to the Major Manga imprints. This is evidence on the biggest comic-related Facebook groups, and as well unfortunately also know, CV> ? again, not true. It's the biggest U.S (and by extension English speaking) comic related media. That doesn't mean anything close to as much as most people think.
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Post by NexusOfLight on Jan 11, 2011 19:18:28 GMT -5
Something doesn't have to be PIS to have a plot device in it. True, of course, but that is completely outside my point. A well used plot device can actually enhance a story. The same can never be said of PIS. And I say it can. Some consider it PIS for Thor needing Beta Ray Bill's help to lift Asgard, which given most of his strength feats would probably be true, but at the same time Secret Invasion: Thor was one of the best stories I've ever read with him, and him using Beta Ray Bill's help--whether he needed it or not--strengthened the theme behind the story about the two being brothers, thus enhancing the quality of the story.
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Post by Crom-Cruach on Jan 11, 2011 19:21:27 GMT -5
And I say it can. Some consider it PIS for Thor needing Beta Ray Bill's help to lift Asgard, which given most of his strength feats would probably be true, but at the same time Secret Invasion: Thor was one of the best stories I've ever read with him, and him using Beta Ray Bill's help--whether he needed it or not--strengthened the theme behind the story about the two being brothers, thus enhancing the quality of the story. secret invasion was a terrible story full of PIS and character derailment. Furthermore, PIS can never make a story better, when it happens it's shitting on a character by showing him less then he is.
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Post by NexusOfLight on Jan 11, 2011 19:24:18 GMT -5
Sure, Secret Invasion--the main event, but that tie in with Thor was most certainly not a terrible story by any means in any way, and as I've just pointed out, PIS made it better.
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Post by Admin on Jan 11, 2011 19:28:19 GMT -5
You didn't expect me to believe Marvel and DC are big in Japan, did you? Obviously, i'm speaking relatively. All of my international peers have chosen to enjoy Marvel and DC. It might not sell AS well as a national company in specific countries, but their characters(the likes of Superman, Batman, Spider-Man) have had a massive international impact, and there's simply no denying that. So, RELATIVELY speaking, I view them as the big two. Do you care to list two companies who you believe have had a bigger impact on the comic book industry?
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Post by Crom-Cruach on Jan 11, 2011 19:40:00 GMT -5
Do you care to list two companies who you believe have had a bigger impact on the comic book industry? In Europe, that's easy: Tintin Asterix Spirou Blake and Mortimer. Those had a far greater impact and still do in the European Mainland then Superman or Spider-Man ever have.
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Decoy Elite
The Unstoppable Ledgernaut
I've seen things you wouldn't believe
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Post by Decoy Elite on Jan 11, 2011 19:45:14 GMT -5
Do you care to list two companies who you believe have had a bigger impact on the comic book industry? In Europe, that's easy: Tintin Asterix Spirou Blake and Mortimer. Those had a far greater impact and still do in the European Mainland then Superman or Spider-Man ever have. He said companies, not comics.
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Post by Admin on Jan 11, 2011 19:46:12 GMT -5
No, an impact on the comic book industry as a whole. Not just in their respective land. The point also remains that DC and Marvel have created figures (while few, they still exist) that are recognized internationally (the ones I previously listed--- aka their cash cows as well, lol). Can you name of two companies who have also accomplished such recognition on an equal international level? '
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Post by Crom-Cruach on Jan 11, 2011 19:49:11 GMT -5
Everyone knows who Asterix and Tintin are.
Again, Le Lombard and Darguaud (the two biggest companies in Europe). You're wearing a U.S centric view that is different (and only true as far as to the U.S) from the rest of the world. In France or Belgium, if we were having this argument, then there'd a majority to back me up.
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Decoy Elite
The Unstoppable Ledgernaut
I've seen things you wouldn't believe
Posts: 4,854
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Post by Decoy Elite on Jan 11, 2011 19:51:19 GMT -5
Everyone knows who Asterix and Tintin are. Except for the majority of people in the U.S.
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Post by Admin on Jan 11, 2011 19:52:04 GMT -5
Thanks for playing the "you're an ignorant American" card, I appreciate it. Try to keep and open mind regarding my own education, because I do the same with yours.
You'ved named two characters, and again restriced it to Europe. You have yet to disprove another company has replicated more fame for their cash cows on a large scale than DC or Marvel has with their select few, such as Superman, Batman, and Spider-Man. I need to go, we'll continue this another time.
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Post by Ferro_Vida on Jan 11, 2011 19:56:49 GMT -5
Considering the fact that every major comic book site, with members from all over the world, features most prominently characters from Marvel and DC, I think it would be grossly inaccurate to say that they are small outside of the states. Yes, there are European and Asian companies that make a lot of other titles. But you can walk into any book store in England, France, Italy, or Germany and I guarantee that the majority of titles will be either Marvel or DC.
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Post by Lunacyde Prime on Jan 11, 2011 20:06:36 GMT -5
Approx. 75% of English-language comics are sold by DC or Marvel.
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Post by Crom-Cruach on Jan 11, 2011 20:17:25 GMT -5
Thanks for playing the "you're an ignorant American" card, I appreciate it. Try to keep and open mind regarding my own education, because I do the same with yours. I haven't played the ignorant american card. You know I respect your intelligence and education. But each of our experiences are made by where we live. Therefore, unless one has lived outside the U.S. It can be very much difficult to accurately gauged the realities outside. Not by lack of intelligence but simply because, unless one does in-depth research that is beyond the interest or experience most people, one does not have the tools to accurately see the whole picture. It's not a jab at your intelligence k4tz. It's just saying that my experience/perception along with those people outside of the U.S is different from yours. That is all, I respect you K4tz. You know this.
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Post by Crom-Cruach on Jan 11, 2011 20:19:59 GMT -5
But you can walk into any book store in England, France, Italy, or Germany and I guarantee that the majority of titles will be either Marvel or DC. Having been to several stores in France and Germany when I spent a month there and having friends and people I talk to overseas as well as subscriptions to European magazines. I can tell you this is totally untrue. The Comics that dominate in Europe are not Marvel or DC, not at all. And in Japan, Korea and Hong Kong Manwha and Manga dominate.
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Post by Lunacyde Prime on Jan 11, 2011 20:21:10 GMT -5
The bottom line is Marvel and DC sell easily the most comics worldwide. Worldwide they are the most recognized. Worldwide they are the two leaders.
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Post by Crom-Cruach on Jan 11, 2011 20:22:32 GMT -5
Approx. 75% of English-language comics are sold by DC or Marvel. Key words being English-Speaking. There is no question that marvel and DC dominate the English-Speaking market, that much is true. But the thing is, outside the english-speaking spheres. Marvel and DC are behind other imprints. Especially in France and Belgium as well as other French speaking countries where Companies like Dargaud and Le Lombard smoke them out of the water in popularity
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Post by Crom-Cruach on Jan 11, 2011 20:23:38 GMT -5
The bottom line is Marvel and DC sell easily the most comics worldwide. Worldwide they are the most recognized. Worldwide they are the two leaders. no they sell the most in English speaking countries, but that is not true outside of them.
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Post by Admin on Jan 11, 2011 20:45:21 GMT -5
I understand, but I view the assumtionof my view being restricted to the U.S. standard a jab at my intellect. I'm sure you would feel the same if I assumed your view was limited to the standard in your location of Canada (I'm sorry, was it the Montreal area?). I've been fortunate enough to travel a good deal during my childhood and teenage years, so thankfully I've had the opportunity to see other cultures. Montreal included...Dear God, enough strip clubs? lol New York is guilty of that as well. Actually, my encounter with a strip club in Montreal is pretty funny. I was fairly young and spotted an arcade game in one of the windows. I looked at the name of the location, and then asked my parents if I could go into the "Peep Show" to play video games. That night, I became a man. Okay, the ending is a lie. Obviously, they said no. My entire argument here has not been about how well Marvel and/or DC sell internationally, but instead the level of recognition both companies characters have received worldwide (this, making them the "big two" in my (American ) eyes). You can take the Superman logo, and it will be recognized more frequently across the world than the symbol representing a popular character in one of the European comapnies. Naturally, the argument can be done for continents and support your case, but that was never my intended opinion. Also, this has nothing to do with "pride" for my country (I know you didn't remark on this, but I'd like to address it). Frankly, I wouldn't care if Marvel or DC were located and originated in Japan, Canada, South Africa, or anywhere else. As long as the product remained the same and received the same amount of international attention, I would enjoy it the same. I take no extra pride in where I'm from, simply because none of us choose what location or lifestyle we're born into. I respect all work equally, no matter the background. It just so happens that the two I view as being known to most people across the globe, happen to be located right next door to me. If you disagree, that's fine. We'll just agree to disagree at this point.
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Post by Crom-Cruach on Jan 11, 2011 20:54:54 GMT -5
I understand, but I view the assumtionof my view being restricted to the U.S. standard a jab at my intellect. I'm sure you would feel the same if I assumed your view was limited to the standard in your location of Canada (I'm sorry, was it the Montreal area?). I've been fortunate enough to travel a good deal during my childhood and teenage years, so thankfully I've had the opportunity to see other cultures. good, traveling is fun. And yes I'm from the Montreal area. My entire argument here has not been about how well Marvel and/or DC sell internationally, but instead the level of recognition both companies characters have received worldwide (this, making them the "big two" in my (American ) eyes). You can take the Superman logo, and it will be recognized more frequently across the world than the symbol representing a popular character in one of the European comapnies.. And what I'm trying to argue is that if you go in France and Belgium, you'll have a lot more chance of meeting people who recognize Tintin and Asterix It just so happens that the two I view as being known to most people across the globe, happen to be located right next door to me. If you disagree, that's fine. We'll just agree to disagree at this point. I will because, based on my experience. Recognition of characters can be very much a local thing. Superman is widespread true, but in some places, he's not the most known. Dear God, enough strip clubs? lol New York is guilty of that as well. Actually, my encounter with a strip club in Montreal is pretty funny. I was fairly young and spotted an arcade game in one of the windows. I looked at the name of the location, and then asked my parents if I could go into the "Peep Show" to play video games. That night, I became a man. Okay, the ending is a lie. Obviously, they said no. Yup, Montreal is strip club central. All thanks to the prohibition, it being one of the biggest mafia centers of power on the North american continent. Plus us quebecers are horny.
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