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Post by NexusOfLight on Jan 23, 2011 16:59:27 GMT -5
If inconsistencies are the only problem with the book, then yeah, I can say I have. Remember, you're talkin' to the only dude on the Ledger, the Vine, and probably the internet who actually enjoyed One More Day. I also have enjoyed Bendis' New Avengers and Dark Avengers, and like you said, he's been trying to re-establish the characters he likes all the time. I can honestly say they were good reads because the stories that were told were good stories. Would they have been better stories if they were written while staying true what's been established for the characters? Probably.
Your realization is certainly true, concerning Marvel and DC, and maybe it's because I realized that going into reading comics that I've never let consistency take away from the quality of the story. When I hear things like "Oh, that story's trash because Black Widow took out Wonder Man," I don't think "wow, that story can't be good because that happened," I think "wow, that's silly, I wonder if the story was actually good." If I read Contest of Champions II and discover that the story was indeed trash, I'll think it so for a little more than inconsistent feats, and if it turns out that the entire story was just inconsistent feats, then I'll deem it a bad story because there was little to no story to judge, like a bad action movie, and the PIS just added on to why the story was bad.
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Killshot Caine
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Post by Killshot Caine on Jan 23, 2011 17:27:36 GMT -5
That's my problem though.Stories that have alot of inconsistencies always seem to have to fill in the blanks with other nonsense and thus they turn out to be terrible.I didn't dislike One More Day because it was a retcon..I disliked it because it was a retcon centered around Aunt May whom doesn't deserve to be saved.There also was no real enemy.It was basically Peter vs. his own emotions and morals and the outcome was completely predictable.I never thought for one second that Aunt May would actually die.
I hated Bendis' New Avengers once Secret Invasion rolled around and I hate his Dark Avengers even more.You know why? He spent the span of several books completely destroying characters.In New Avengers..Echo barely did anything,same as Iron Fist.He claimed to have so much interest in Cage but everything that Cage did was dealing with Jessica and the baby and he was a complete failure as a leader.Strange did most of the work on the team while everyone else was kind of just there.All Spider-Woman's feats are irrelevant because it wasn't really her it was Queen Veranke.Every issue seemed to be..what big ass group of characters can we put against them so we can have long drawn out fights where one character does the bulk of the work.
Dark Avengers was even worse.They had several issues focused around Sentry and all they did was kill him off.He was killed in 3 different issues before they explained it and his explanation only made another character (Molecule Man) useless.He did nothing with the rest of the team.It was the Iron Patriot and Sentry show the entire time and most of what they did isn't worth mentioning.They had way better depictions in books like Spider-Man,Agents of Atlas,and Mighty Avengers.Bendis completely destroyed Sentry's character and then his creator helped close the coffin on him.Everyone on the team got a raw deal.Bullseye got captured by HAMMER and the only time he actually did anything worth mentioning was in the X-men crossover and in Dark Reign: Elektra.He turned Moonstone into a completely whore.She slept with Noh-Varr,Daken,and I think even Bullseye.Completely pointless arc.There wasn't just a lack of consistency Bendis failed to use that team to their full potential.He made no use of Noh-Varr until the annual and no use of Daken until a whole event later.(Siege)
Contest of Champions wasn't trash because Black Widow beat Wonder Man although that is a completely retarded showing but the book is pages and pages of the same asinine outcomes.Daredevil over Firestar,Black Panther over the New Warriors,X-force over Iron Man with the finishing blow delivered by Domino. Domino over Luke Cage, Deadpool over Generation X etc.It gets worse and worse with each issue.There are massive amounts of inconsistency.
So again..I have never read a comic with high level of inconsistency and still liked it.If inconsistency isn't kept at a standard minimum..the book is a throw away.A writer coming in and completely underselling or overblowing a characters abilities is annoying and often leads to more ridiculous plot lines.
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Post by NexusOfLight on Jan 24, 2011 12:32:34 GMT -5
Emotions and morals make for the best type of stories. There's no need to have a physical enemy all the time, but that's just me. All I know is that the reason I loved One More Day so much was because it, along with Back in Black, was one of the main reasons I got to look at the super hero genre of comics as something more than good guys fighting bad guys. I liked seeing the emotion, I liked seeing the moral dilemma, and I liked that there wasn't some grand mastermind behind everything like the Green Goblin. It was, like you said, him against his emotions. Did I think Aunt May was gonna die? No, but I liked seeing Peter freak out about it, and I kinda liked seeing him ultimately fail in the end because it made me realize that super heroes have short comics too. The story was interesting, and I enjoyed the ride it took me on. A lot of other people hated that ride for the very reasons I liked it. I mean, nothing really more to it. I just liked that story. I didn't really care that it was Peter going through it, I didn't care about how he was supposed to act or anything like that, I just cared about the story, because that was the thing I was reading. If they switched Peter out for some other character, it woulda been just as much of a captivating read to me. If Bendis had of switched out all the characters in the New Avengers with completely different ones, characters that he made up with no ties to the continuities that Spider-man, Wolverine, Doctor Strange, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, and blah blah have, would your reading experience have been any different, or is what you were really upset about was the lack of spotlight certain characters got, because from what you just said, that seems to be more the case. That's actually more of a comment on the story than the consistency to me. And keeping with the switching out character things, what would you say if Contest of Champions II happened in its own universe without any ties to anything that's already been established? Would you have liked it more? If so, that would make little sense to me. I mean, are you looking at every character's life as one big story instead of a bunch of separate stories written by separate writers on separate occasions? Maybe that's the best type of mentality to have when debating in battle forums, ignoring all showings of the character deemed PIS and all, but outside of that, I can't see how thinking like that you, or anyone thinking like that, could enjoy a Marvel or DC comic, because by their very nature, they're going to be inconsistent. As for whether or not an arc is pointless or not concerning the overarching universe, I'd like to point out that even if that arc is never mentioned or built on again, that doesn't mean it's throw away. Moving away from New Avengers and Dark Avengers and all that junk, I always thought that was a given. I mean, there are plenty of stories, even entire series that will get ignored or even re-written, but that doesn't get me upset, and it shouldn't really get anyone upset. Secret Warriors, as far as I can tell, probably will be forgotten by the rest of the Marvel Universe as soon as it finishes up, and because of that these guys think it's "throw away" because of that even though they've praised it for being so great. So my big thing is, why should it be throw away if it was worth the read? Simple answer. It shouldn't. A good story is a good story despite whether it's referenced in another story later on down the line.
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Killshot Caine
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Post by Killshot Caine on Jan 24, 2011 21:32:08 GMT -5
I'm all for characters showing emotions, believe me.My favorite character Daredevil has plenty of that in his story lines throughout the years. However in the case of OMD I felt like it would have benefited from having an enemy because I felt the story line was wasted on the plot line which wasn't very good.OMD was a good idea that was simply poorly executed.The retcon needed to happen but not like that.For that to be the arc that completely starts Spider-Man from scratch....it was nowhere near worth it.
As for New Avengers it doesn't matter what characters Bendis used.When Marvel lets him write for a character he seems to always gradually eff it up.His New Avengers wasn't always bad.It came to a certain point and then it seemed to me like he said "I already f#cked this team up..I might as well leave a mark" and then he proceeded to depower and retcon Dr.Strange and Sentry.
Contest of Champions II may not be canon.I'm not sure but I don't think it matters.What happens doesn't actually effect the characters because it's not the central Marvel Earth but it does effect the quality of the comic because it seemingly makes everything that happens pointless.I think it's especially proper to keep PIS to a minimum in alternate timelines especially when you're working off 616's blueprint.
A characters life is supposed to be one big story.Everyone is not supposed to have their own interpretation but add to it.I'm fully aware that most writing is inconsistent..thus the point of the thread and my sudden realization.I love Daredevil comics even though each writer doesn't stay completely true to what others wrote.However when a writer decides that are going to ruin the character by make unnecessary changes or writing things that are completely against the characters being...that is when there's a problem for me.
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Post by NexusOfLight on Jan 25, 2011 14:43:58 GMT -5
Not supposed to have their own interpretation? Again, I'm tellin' you that's just simply impossible. The only way that a comic can simply "add on" is if there's only one writer writing for that comic, and that's only if he can remember what he had in mind for that character from the start.
I'm not sure what to tell you about your dilemma though. Like I said, the way I see it is by taking things as is, a story written for my enjoyment, without issues like continuity and that other phrase I keep hearing--"character derailment"--still haven't really seen any of that for myself, but whatever drastically affecting whether I like it or not. Quality over Continuity.
I just feel that if that's the deciding factor for enjoying a story, you won't--you can't--enjoy most stories that Marvel and DC put out, unless you get someone like Dan Slott coming around writing for Spider-Man, and that only comes every so often it seems. Maybe that's what you should do--just pick up stories that are written by writers you can trust, the few writers that do what you want. That way you'd avoid all the character derailment and inconsistency you loathe so much.
That was a good line you said about One More Day though. "The storyline was wasted on the plot line." No way I agree with it, but it still sounds cool.
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Killshot Caine
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Post by Killshot Caine on Feb 3, 2011 12:26:52 GMT -5
Not supposed to have their own interpretation? Again, I'm tellin' you that's just simply impossible. The only way that a comic can simply "add on" is if there's only one writer writing for that comic, and that's only if he can remember what he had in mind for that character from the start. I'm not sure what to tell you about your dilemma though. Like I said, the way I see it is by taking things as is, a story written for my enjoyment, without issues like continuity and that other phrase I keep hearing--"character derailment"--still haven't really seen any of that for myself, but whatever drastically affecting whether I like it or not. Quality over Continuity. I just feel that if that's the deciding factor for enjoying a story, you won't--you can't--enjoy most stories that Marvel and DC put out, unless you get someone like Dan Slott coming around writing for Spider-Man, and that only comes every so often it seems. Maybe that's what you should do--just pick up stories that are written by writers you can trust, the few writers that do what you want. That way you'd avoid all the character derailment and inconsistency you loathe so much. That was a good line you said about One More Day though. "The storyline was wasted on the plot line." No way I agree with it, but it still sounds cool. It's not impossible.I know because i've read Daredevil since issue #1 and there are very few inconsistencies after Miller's Run.If you take out what Stan Lee wrote...then it would appear that Miller,Bendis,Brubaker,and Diggle(excluding Shadowland) and even Loeb (Daredevil Yellow) were all writing the same Daredevil.Same personality,same demeanor,consistent feats etc.Miller even tried his best to keep in tact most of DD's original origin story without retconning to much. Writers can talk,should talk..it should be mandatory.There should be things that the guy before had written that the next writer has to carry on.If i'm writing Wonder Woman and Gail Simone is going to get back on it..she's not supposed to write HER WONDER WOMAN, she's just supposed to write WONDER WOMAN..you get what i'm saying? She can add her own creative twist without changing the character.That's what the story is for. As I said before.I still enjoy comics.This sudden realization isn't me saying..."I came to the conclusion that comics are never written well so i'm not reading comics anymore." That's not what I am saying.I'm just saying when there is massive amounts of PIS,retcons,disregard for character,CIS,WIS,etc. the book cannot be good. When these things appear in comics..I don't make a big deal about it but when it gets out of hand like it did with Sentry in Dark Reign in Siege, like it did with Dr.Strange in Heroic Age, like it did with Ms.Marvel in Dark Reign..that's when the book becomes garbage because the writers start basing stories around stupid changes they've made to the characters.Thus you have the first arc in New Avengers v2 where everyone finds out Strange is a liar and a fake.
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Post by NexusOfLight on Feb 3, 2011 13:37:05 GMT -5
But the simple fact that it does happen proves that it's impossible. And why should you take out Stan Lee's initial stories? Is he not the same Daredevil there? Sure writers can talk with each other. That's great, Dan Slott's obviously talking with the rest of the writers in the MU since he's incorporating the Avengers and the New Avengers team with his Big Time story. Fraction's obviously been talking with Slott too as seen in Iron Man 500, but not every writer's going to do that. There will always be Gail Simone's and such. That's just a direct result of the company being so big. Things our bound to be over looked, and that's just part of it.
The other side of it is no matter who you are, if you're writing something it's going to be different from another writer's story of that same character. There will always be a "his Superman" and a "her Wonder Woman." Ideally, multiple writers will have the same general interpretation of the same character so any changes will be relatively minimal, but either way, it's impossible for writers to not have their own interpretation of characters just like it's impossible for fans to have the same impression of a character. And this is going beyond just whether or not a story is consistent, this extends to the nature of the story written itself. Again, part of the main reason I believe story should take precedence over consistency to begin with. There's a big difference between how Fraction, Jurgens, Glass, and Rodi write Thor. Does that really matter? Should it? No, so long as the story is good.
I'm glad you still love comics and all, and I understand your pet peeves with it, but all I'm really saying now is that the stuff you dislike is going to happen no matter what, and there are some people--people like me--who actually enjoy what you deem garbage. Sentry in Dark Reign to me seemed like the first time he actually got some development since his initial inception, the first time he got a purpose, the first time he was worth reading about. Dr. Strange in the Heroic Age to me was a good thing because I found the story revolving around him interesting. I didn't see it as a retcon, but just a development much like how Professor Xavier was during the time he was falling from grace, much like how Iron Man was during Civil War, much like how Cyclops has been acting, much like how Moon Knight's been growing. Is any of all that the same way the characters were acting back in the 70's, 80's, and/or 90's? Are these all the results of "basing stories around stupid changes they've made to the characters?" Maybe so, maybe no, but I've been enjoying the stories and the "stupid changes" well enough to keep buying them. Ms. Marvel in Dark Reign--I actually don't see how that was any different from the rest of the volume. It was no better or worse from that issue one. I didn't think any "changes" in it were stupid, because I was enjoying the story. The first arc in New Avengers v2 was fun. It carried over most of the same themes v1 had laid groundwork for with Strange, and brought it into fruition. And yes, I enjoyed that too. Am I a bad comic fan for doing that? For not caring about all the so called "PIS,retcons,disregard for character,CIS,WIS,etc" that all those books happened to have? Is there such a thing as a good comic fan? Does it really matter? I don't think so.
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Killshot Caine
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Post by Killshot Caine on Feb 3, 2011 15:48:15 GMT -5
@nexus
Here's some things to think about.
1.Everyone who wrote DD after Miller followed his blueprint.Miller and Loeb rewrote Daredevil's origin.Miller did the stuff before Murdock actually becomes Daredevil and Loeb did Daredevil Yellow which was DD's earlier years.Stan Lee made it so Matt Murdock trained himself after the accident to become this great superhero.Made him the "Scarlet Swachbuckler" a guy who goes on these big adventures. Miller made it so Stick trained Daredevil and he added the Kingpin,and Elektra and some other characters to the story to make it make sense and give it some substance.So Miller's DD is the real DD.Which is why everyone follows his blueprint.Bendis even revisits some of the things that Miller came up with in his run.
2.I'm not worried about minor changes in consistency between writers.I know that's going to happen.My problem is when a writer takes over the book and it's plainly obvious he either doesn't know what to do with the character or he's changing the way other writers have always written the character.
3.Sentry in Dark Reign was partially retconned.Now thanks to Bendis he has 3 different origins stories.This wasn't the first time anyone tried to develop the character or that he had a purpose.He had a miniseries with him as the focal, he had an other set of miniseries that went into his relationships with other characters. There was World War Hulk, there was Mighty Avengers, There was New Avengers vs. Thunderbolts etc. etc. There's plenty of times where Sentry has been the man, the go to guy.He went from being the team powerhouse to the leader's puppet.
4.Dr.Strange in the Heroic Age was COMPLETELY retconned.Everything we know about him was a lie.You know what that does? The makes the entire "Who's the New Sorcerer Supreme arc irrelevant." Which means a whole chunk of story in the New Avengers during Dark Reign doesn't even matter.You can't compare Xavier and Iron Man to Strange because they didn't really change.Iron Man and Civil War was only doing out of character things because of the situation which is understandable...same with Cyclops and Moon Knight.That's actual character development.
5.Ms.Marvel was cancelled after Dark Reign.Shows how much good that arc did for her comics.Her book was making fairly good sale during Civil War,Initiative,and Secret Invasion.You know why..because she actually had a role.Vol.2 started with Carol doing her normal crime fighting thing.She had a mount of feats.Civil War came around..she was an officer for Tony's Initiative and she tried to round up anti-registration superhumans and there was complex storyline in there.There were somethings she had to deal with personally with the act itself and with every other thing going on with her.Then in Secret Invasion she was first thought to be a skrull and then she had to protect NY nearly by herself from a huge skrull Army.
Dark Reign was nothing like that.Half of it was about Moonstone..then they did War of the Marvels as if Moonstone is actually a match for Ms.Marvel when Ms.Marvel outclasses her in ever possible was and Moonstone's powers would only make Ms.Marvel more powerful.The whole thing with them pretending Carol died and her splitting in pieces and that clone, Catherine Donovan..nonsense.You see what I mean.How can War of the Marvels be good when it's based around a mismatch? They did nothing to make it fair for Moonstone they just over-exaggerated her abilities and threw Iron Patriot in there who is no match for her either.
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Matezoide
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Post by Matezoide on Feb 3, 2011 16:50:42 GMT -5
Dr.Strange in the Heroic Age was COMPLETELY retconned.Everything we know about him was a lie.You know what that does? The makes the entire "Who's the New Sorcerer Supreme arc irrelevant." Which means a whole chunk of story in the New Avengers during Dark Reign doesn't even matter wait,what? can you explain what happened to Strange? i have yet to read Heroic Age
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Post by NexusOfLight on Feb 3, 2011 17:59:44 GMT -5
1. Miller's DD is the real DD? So what you're saying is it's okay for someone to come in and retcon a few things as long as everyone after it follows the same blueprint consistently, but if someone does another retcon, the story arc is trash? Still not following. Are you saying you don't like retcons you don't agree with? The ones you deem "pointless?" I understand you like Daredevil for being consistent. I agree, it's been the most consistent title Marvel's put out to date. I've been pleased with the overall quality of the title as well. Not necessarily because it's been truthful to what Miller put out, but because it's been consistently good. Every Daredevil story I've read, I've taken something from.
2. And again, I know that's a major issue for you, and I have an understanding of why it is, but at the same time, some writer coming in retconning things is what's bound to happen at least every couple of decades or so. It happened with Daredevil back then, and it was handled well, why is it so bad if it happens to another character now?
3. It wasn't the first time, no. I've read both of his minis. They were nice. World War Hulk, he wasn't really a focal character, just the *insert big, bad, power person for Hulk to fight at the end* guy. Same with most of the other times he's had a little role in a team story. When Dark Reign came around, that relationship between Norman and Bob went a little further than, "the team powerhouse," or as I believe Iron Man put it, a gun that you aim and shoot. That was the main thing I liked about it. You completely dismissing it as Sentry getting downgraded to "the leader's puppet" is alright, I suppose if that's how you view honestly view it. As for his origin story, I didn't see it as a retcon, but more of a revelation. His story got expanded on.
4. First off, I want to point out again that whether or not a story arc is irrelevant doesn't--or at least shouldn't--take away from whether or not you enjoy that particular story or the character from it. Like I said before, chances are with Secret Warriors coming to an end, very little is going to effect the overarching universe. Same with Shield, but that doesn't change the fact that they're good stories. Yet another reason I feel it's best to put quality over continuity. Secondly, I can compare what happened to Strange with those others because from a strictly continuity perspective, they did change. Cyclops--shoot--the Fear Itself solicit for him verifies that. Moon Knight seems to have changed drastically from his first incarnation to his Civil War era and to now. And Xavier--especially Xavier--went from this peaceful, Martin Luther King-esque "I have a dream" character to someone who's been revealed later on to do all these questionable antics, kinda like Dr. Strange. So yeah, from a continuity standpoint, they have all changed. And again, does any of that matter to me? No, because I enjoyed all the stories those changes brought about.
5. And again, I enjoyed every last bit of it. To me, they were all just different stories of the character. I saw no nonsense, I saw the same quality that the series started with all the way through. Saying it was a bad comic because Moonstone and Iron Patriot shouldn't be fighting Ms. Marvel as an equal is just silly.
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Post by mavfan626 on Feb 3, 2011 18:19:50 GMT -5
Have any of you guys thought about becoming writes? it can't be that hard if so many shit writes can get the job.. most of you guys are from the US right?
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Post by NexusOfLight on Feb 3, 2011 18:33:46 GMT -5
I do all the time. It's the reason I write stories, and start role plays.
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Killshot Caine
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Post by Killshot Caine on Feb 3, 2011 18:59:01 GMT -5
Dr.Strange in the Heroic Age was COMPLETELY retconned.Everything we know about him was a lie.You know what that does? The makes the entire "Who's the New Sorcerer Supreme arc irrelevant." Which means a whole chunk of story in the New Avengers during Dark Reign doesn't even matter wait,what? can you explain what happened to Strange? i have yet to read Heroic Age The Eye of Aggamoto wasn't given to Strange by the Ancient One.He stole it from Aggamoto.
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Matezoide
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Post by Matezoide on Feb 3, 2011 19:00:04 GMT -5
wait,what? can you explain what happened to Strange? i have yet to read Heroic Age The Eye of Aggamoto wasn't given to Strange by the Ancient One.He stole it from Aggamoto. WTF...
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Killshot Caine
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Post by Killshot Caine on Feb 3, 2011 19:42:52 GMT -5
@nexus
1.I don't have a problem with retcons.I have a problem with writers taking something away from the character that had already been established and whole arcs have been based around.If you tell me that the Hulk gets angrier the madder he gets and then you retcon that out of his origin and story then you've now ruined the character.It doesn't matter if the stories written with that attribute were good.They are obsolete now.The Strange story arc in New Avengers wasn't trash because of the retcon..Strange is trash because of the retcon.The story is trash because it wasn't written well.
2.Again, I'm not talking about just retcons.I'm also talking about writers overlooking a characters actual attributes just for a plot.I often see writers contradict their OWN crappy writing.Consistency is an issue even without changing writers.You can't tell me that Daredevil is strong enough to go h2h with The Ox,The Crusher,The Thing,Sabretooth, etc. and then when he fights Ka-Zar he can't even hurt him.(Stan Lee)
3.Sentry wasn't just downgraded to a puppet he was downgraded in general.The Void in Siege was nowhere near as powerful as the one Sentry fought or the one that the F4,X-men and Avengers fought in New Avengers. The Sentry had been weaker then than he had been in Mighty Avengers and New Avengers.How would a fan of the character feel like the are getting some substance when all they're doing is downplaying him so he can be killed off? Bendis didn't progress Sentry he streamlined him and then ended him.
4.The changes that are being made to Cyclops and Moon Knight don't even matter.The changes they are making don't take away from what has already been shown for them.The Eye of Aggamoto thing is HUGE. That would be like if we found out in the next issue of Iron Man that Pepper has been making all of his armors all of this time.It would completely ruin the character.Changing Xavier and Stark's demeanor doesn't really take away much from the character.
5.The Dark Reign arc didn't suck because of the forced rivalry between Ms.Marvel and two weaker characters.It sucked because it did nothing to progress Ms.Marvel as a character.The only part that did was in the very beginning when she goes back and talks to her mother.She spent several issues as Carol Danvers. (Lame) Then she was seemingly killed off.When Moonstone took over they didn't do anything to progress her as a character at all.All they did is reveal things that had already been stated.Then Ms.Marvel came back and made quick work of her...and they had the nerve to try and make a special arc out of it."War of the Marvels"...We saw in the same volume that Warbird (alternate version of Ms.Marvel) wasn't a match for Ms.Marvel but somehow Moonstone makes it "War of the Marvels".The real Ms.Marvel against someone who doesn't want to be Ms.Marvel in the first place? That arc was trash.
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Post by NexusOfLight on Feb 3, 2011 19:50:00 GMT -5
wait,what? can you explain what happened to Strange? i have yet to read Heroic Age The Eye of Aggamoto wasn't given to Strange by the Ancient One.He stole it from Aggamoto. Wait, maybe I'm remembering it wrong, but I thought that was just a mix up that Danny had with Strange. Strange told him it was passed down to him. "He is the man who bequeathed it to me in the first place as I bequeathed it to Jericho Drumm," and in the opening of that issue #5 I think, Strange and Wong went through a little fight with some Hand ninjas telling them about how it actually cannot be stolen. Did I misinterpret something?
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Post by NexusOfLight on Feb 3, 2011 20:20:49 GMT -5
1. Isn't that exactly the definition of a retcon? Taking something away that's been established? It was established that Superman wasn't able to fly when he was created. Then he was retconned into doing so. Now that he has been, is the character now ruined? I doubt that. Sticking with Superman, it was then established that he could move planets around like they were beach balls. That got taken away, too. Is he even more ruined because of that? I don't think so. I'm fairly certain you don't think so either. And I'm still not seeing how you think the story wasn't written well when it just seemed like you just mentioned that "the book becomes garbage because the writers start basing stories around stupid changes they've made to the characters."
2. And again, I'm saying it's that kind of thinking that takes away from enjoying a story as is. If continuity is the end all be all for you deciding whether or not a story is good, then you're not going to find many good stories in Marvel or DC.
3. So are you saying power makes the character now, and since Bendis seemingly nerfed him for that moment, there was no substance to the story? I'm a fan of Sentry, too. Obviously for different reasons, but like I said, I found more substance in his latter days than he's had when he was in New Avengers and Mighty Avengers.
4. Like I said, I think the eye thing in New Avengers wasn't like what you said it was. The only thing I recall from that arc was the team discovering that Agamotto was a person, and that was really his eye. I'll re-read the issues tonight to make sure, but even if it is how you said it was, it wouldn't take away from me enjoying the story.
5. You say you're calling it trash for the story, but the only thing you're mentioning as a reason is her fighting against someone who's weaker than her for a special arc. And what's wrong with issues about just Carol Danvers? Are you the type of person that doesn't like super hero comics that focus on the person behind the mask? I know that's not true because you enjoy Daredevil.
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Killshot Caine
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Post by Killshot Caine on Feb 3, 2011 20:33:48 GMT -5
The Eye of Aggamoto wasn't given to Strange by the Ancient One.He stole it from Aggamoto. Wait, maybe I'm remembering it wrong, but I thought that was just a mix up that Danny had with Strange. Strange told him it was passed down to him. "He is the man who bequeathed it to me in the first place as I bequeathed it to Jericho Drumm," and in the opening of that issue #5 I think, Strange and Wong went through a little fight with some Hand ninjas telling them about how it actually cannot be stolen. Did I misinterpret something? No, you're right.I was wrong.It appears the Eye of Aggamoto thing was a trick.The Ancient One didn't really appear.Wong did say in issue #5 that you cannot steal the eye..the Eye chooses you. I hate being wrong LOL.So then what is the explanation of Dr.Strange being the most powerful mortal to not being anywhere near that and giving the eye to Voodoo?
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Killshot Caine
The Unstoppable Ledgernaut
You Just Mad Cuz i'm Stylin On you!
Posts: 5,732
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Post by Killshot Caine on Feb 3, 2011 20:34:33 GMT -5
The Eye of Aggamoto wasn't given to Strange by the Ancient One.He stole it from Aggamoto. WTF... Sorry...False Alarm.It was a trick.
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Post by NexusOfLight on Feb 3, 2011 20:57:45 GMT -5
No, you're right.I was wrong.It appears the Eye of Aggamoto thing was a trick.The Ancient One didn't really appear.Wong did say in issue #5 that you cannot steal the eye..the Eye chooses you. I hate being wrong LOL.So then what is the explanation of Dr.Strange being the most powerful mortal to not being anywhere near that and giving the eye to Voodoo? Happens to the best of us. As for Strange getting his downgrade, I think that was what Bendis had been progressively doing in the first volume of New Avengers. Since during his time as Sorcerer Supreme, he fiddled with dark arts and broke all these rules for good reason most of the time, like invoking Zom an' junk to fight Hulk. All that took a toll on him causing him to leave the New Avengers to try and redeem himself, but ultimately failing. He loses the mantle of Sorcerer Supreme, and all the big gun magics that came with it. That's where the Search for the New Sorcerer Supreme came in. That's why I compared him to Xavier. This super great guy who gets cast in a slightly darker light as the years go by.
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