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Post by NorCalCO on Dec 9, 2011 21:23:03 GMT -5
norcal- Oh yeah we both agree on that and the series as a whole. Great minds think alike.
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Post by ckal on Dec 9, 2011 23:02:00 GMT -5
Yeah, but I'm pretty sure the pros outweigh the cons for the most part. Ehhhhh. FI was entirely forgettable and completely non engaging. IMO Great minds think alike. If you tell me you're drunk right now like I am then we are meant to be.
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Post by NorCalCO on Dec 10, 2011 0:24:25 GMT -5
There may have been some orange juice and vodka consumption going on this evening.
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Post by NexusOfLight on Dec 10, 2011 0:53:10 GMT -5
Yeah, but I'm pretty sure the pros outweigh the cons for the most part. Ehhhhh. FI was entirely forgettable and completely non engaging. IMO I dunno about you, but Thor knocking Hulk into orbit is something I'll never forget. And as per usual, I'm probably the only one out there in comic book internetdom that legitly enjoyed the whole thing from start to finish, as I have with all of Marvel's events, so I guess the natural order of the world is still in motion.
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Post by NorCalCO on Dec 10, 2011 1:09:48 GMT -5
I actually enjoyed Fear Itself quite a bit, I just didn't think the IIM arc was particularly impressive. Now I have a better understanding as to why that is the case.
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Post by NexusOfLight on Dec 10, 2011 1:34:47 GMT -5
I agree with that. It did have its moments though. I really enjoyed Pepper's encounter with Grey Gargoyle. When he had her pinned and was waiting for her to open her eyes... and then sayin' "I can wait." That literally sent chills down my spine. So good.
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Post by ckal on Dec 10, 2011 12:27:33 GMT -5
I dunno about you, but Thor knocking Hulk into orbit is something I'll never forget. Absolutely. The entire Thor vs Worthy Hulk and Thing fight scene actually. But that is one sequence, in seven issues.
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Post by NexusOfLight on Dec 10, 2011 12:52:57 GMT -5
I also will forever remember Tony talkin' smack to Odin, and with what's currently about to go down in Iron Man, there's no way I'll forget him breaking down with a drink. So that's two sequences.
Another memorable sequence would be the Serpent breaking Cap's shield and proclaiming "I can do anything! I AM GOD!" And the whole start of it, when Cap had to face those mobsters. Definitely remember that. We up to 3 right there, and I'm not even including any of the tie-ins--the part of the story that I really got into. Like Pepper facing Grey Gargoyle, Red Hulk against Worthy Thing, Squirrel Girl saving Luke and Jewel's baby, the entire run of Home Front and Youth in Revolt, and Loki's adventures in Journey Into Mystery, but let's not look at those. Focusing only on the 7 issue event.
And again, this is just me, but Thor standing up to Odin, just to have Odin take away his hammer. I'mma remember that. Steve taking up the shield after Bucky died. Was real nice to see him back in his Cap uniform. Cap standing up to Odin. Cap then making a stand at Bronxton. Cap picking up Thor's fallen hammer. Tony finally bringing in the Worthy Weapons. Thor slaying the Serpent. That all really stood out to me, and it all was something I found quite epic and quite engaging. I found it chock full of awesomeness. In my honest opinion, this was Marvel's best event in the last five years, and that's me saying that as someone who liked all of Marvel's big events to some degree for the last five years.
I enjoyed the story, the set up, and the big scenes all very much. But again, this is just me. Most other people on other forums (i.e. Comic Vine) seem to think it was worse than Siege, Matt Fraction has messed up the whole Marvel universe, and that everything he touches is crap so what do I really know?
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Post by ckal on Dec 10, 2011 14:05:13 GMT -5
I've forgotten about a lot of those because it was most of the time just meh to me. A few of those were badass or epic at the time, but nothing worth sticking with me.
I feel like the Serpent breaking Cap's shield should have been one a more memorable event, but it had no impact on the character or story.
That's the problem, for all the stuff that happened, they mostly had almost no lasting impact on anything. Things would be more memorable if they actually meant something. This doesn't apply to everything you listed, but is my reasoning as to why a lot of this event didn't stick with me.
Predictability thanks to marketing, promos, and obvious plot lines also ruins things. The JIM FI tie in was the best part of FI IMO.
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Post by NexusOfLight on Dec 10, 2011 14:35:11 GMT -5
Predictability thanks to marketing, promos, and obvious plot lines also ruins things. The JIM FI tie in was the best part of FI IMO. And that's the danger of getting too involved with the metatext. I still don't know why people haven't realized that reading a promo will ultimately change your viewpoint on how the story goes. Not sayin' this is you, but far too often, people look at a promo image and based on that one image, they've already made up in their mind how the story goes, and when the story doesn't go that way, they consider the story bad, and when it does go that way, they consider it horribly predictable. All based off of an image. Promos and the like aren't meant to be looked at that way. They're supposed to be used as marketing, and nothing else. They're trying to market to the comic shop owners into giving it a chance for them to place orders. But with the information age, the rise of metatext, and things of the like, we get news articles pretty much taking all the promos out there, piecing them together, and essentially spoiling the whole story before its even put out on the shelves. I've always been someone who feels that the best way to enjoy a comic is to simply read the comic and enjoy it as opposed to get everything about the comic beforehand and then see if it lives up to whatever expectation you've made from there. Tried starting up a topic about it a while back, but no one really took interest. As for things being memorable, I don't think it having a lasting effect on the whole universe of things should be taken that heavily into account, because with comics especially, no matter how many things change, they'll ultimately revert back anyway. Not necessarily because writers are lazy and forget to look back at the big change that happened or whatnot (though this is certainly an issue), not even because every time something big does change, every fanboy in one corner of the internet will be begging for it to go back and continue to hate on it until it happens (which happens far too often in my opinion), but just because that's the nature of comics as a whole. I feel that the best way for something to be memorable from a story is to read it and truly enjoy it for happening. Of course you're going to remember it if they bring it up every time they get the chance, though. To be quite honest, I don't remember Bucky dying at all during the event. That didn't stick out to me at all, but because Steve's back wielding the shield, they've had a major funeral about him, and this is something they keep bringing up, I'm going to remember that it did indeed happen, but the actual event of it was something that just simply didn't stick. So lasting change/impact shouldn't be a major factor in determining what's memorable. It certainly helps in the long run I suppose.
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Post by jakefury on Dec 18, 2011 16:50:31 GMT -5
I have finally read The Five Nightmares. Wow, what an arc.
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Post by NorCalCO on Dec 19, 2011 2:30:03 GMT -5
Glad to hear you enjoyed it, I had a hunch you would. Fraction's entire run on IIM has been pretty great, especially the first several arcs. I have the entire run as both singles and TPB's. It's that good IMO.
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Post by ckal on Dec 19, 2011 22:19:17 GMT -5
Glad to hear you enjoyed it Fury, and like norcalco said, I'm not surprised. It's really good.
Read Stark Disassembled next. Awesome stuff, even though he's depowered virtually the entire time. Great writing.
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Post by NorCalCO on Dec 19, 2011 23:41:22 GMT -5
Stark: Disassembled is really good, but if you are going to read Fraction's entire run then you should read World's Most Wanted next. I feel like Disassembled will have more meaning if you've read Most Wanted first. Plus, Most Wanted is my favorite arc from the run. It's collected in two TPB volumes (2 and 3).
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Post by jakefury on Dec 20, 2011 15:24:25 GMT -5
Got Worlds Most Wanted part 1 (vol 2)
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Post by NorCalCO on Dec 20, 2011 15:57:31 GMT -5
I have a suspicion you'll be buying World's Most Wanted part 2 very shortly after finishing part 1.
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Post by jakefury on Dec 20, 2011 16:56:25 GMT -5
I'm hooked on Tony like I was on Moon Knight's 2006 run.
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Post by NorCalCO on Dec 20, 2011 19:07:03 GMT -5
That's awesome! Keep us posted!
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Post by ckal on Dec 21, 2011 20:42:15 GMT -5
I'm sorry, you know what? I think I meant "World's Most Wanted" not "Stark Disassembled".
WMW is the one where he is gradually deleting his brain right?
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Post by jakefury on Dec 21, 2011 20:43:26 GMT -5
Yes, to prevent Osborne from obtaining the info on heroes' identities.
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