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Post by Phantom Stargrave on Feb 21, 2011 13:00:16 GMT -5
I read an article in some science magazine that there is more potential untapped energy in a micrometer of air than there is used in a nuclear power plant. Or was it a nanometer? Can't really say. I only have amateur knowledge on the subject. Perhaps they were talking about zero-point energy, which IIRC, can't actually be tapped into.
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Decoy Elite
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Post by Decoy Elite on Feb 21, 2011 13:00:56 GMT -5
I just saw Deadpool get knocked out by gunfire...but then Hulk was unable to KO him, that makes no sense. In the same issue?
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Post by Crom-Cruach on Feb 21, 2011 13:01:42 GMT -5
Okay, every science based healing factor is doomed to confuse and annoy me. There. lol. @vance: don't expect sense and consistency with especially anything deadpool related.
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Post by Erik-El on Feb 21, 2011 13:05:00 GMT -5
I read an article in some science magazine that there is more potential untapped energy in a micrometer of air than there is used in a nuclear power plant. Or was it a nanometer? Can't really say. I only have amateur knowledge on the subject. Perhaps they were talking about zero-point energy, which IIRC, can't actually be tapped into. I do not think it was zero-point energy. I would have remembered that in the article. Zero-point energy is infinite right? This was not speaking about infinite energy. It was however an article about theoretical alternate energy sources. I do not recall zero-point being discussed in it at all.
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Post by Phantom Stargrave on Feb 21, 2011 13:18:10 GMT -5
I do not think it was zero-point energy. I would have remembered that in the article. Zero-point energy is infinite right? This was not speaking about infinite energy. It was however an article about theoretical alternate energy sources. I do not recall zero-point being discussed in it at all. Damn, that was my only option. On the subject of realistic healing factors, I think low level healing factors, like Spiderman's, are relatively believable. There are animals who can heal quite rapidly and even regrow lost limbs, so the mechanisms for it exist. Cuts, burns or even bullet wounds aren't that implausible because the actual loss of material is small and can be compensated from body's own supplies. Loosing chunks of flesh, or even limbs, you're looking at days or weeks of recovery during which time you'll be eating like, 8 lunches a day do replenish your energy.
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Killshot Caine
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Post by Killshot Caine on Feb 21, 2011 13:18:12 GMT -5
I just saw Deadpool get knocked out by gunfire...but then Hulk was unable to KO him, that makes no sense. In the same issue? No LOL.
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Post by Erik-El on Feb 21, 2011 13:29:21 GMT -5
I do not think it was zero-point energy. I would have remembered that in the article. Zero-point energy is infinite right? This was not speaking about infinite energy. It was however an article about theoretical alternate energy sources. I do not recall zero-point being discussed in it at all. Damn, that was my only option. On the subject of realistic healing factors, I think low level healing factors, like Spiderman's, are relatively believable. There are animals who can heal quite rapidly and even regrow lost limbs, so the mechanisms for it exist. Cuts, burns or even bullet wounds aren't that implausible because the actual loss of material is small and can be compensated from body's own supplies. Loosing chunks of flesh, or even limbs, you're looking at days or weeks of recovery during which time you'll be eating like, 8 lunches a day do replenish your energy. People like Spider-Man I personally class as accelerated healers. They use what their body has to accelerate the healing of their bodies. That is just my own personal classification though. I probably have put way too much thought into it but that is what Wolverine fanboys like me do. The energy article thing might have been on Dark Energy but I am not sure on that.
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Post by DedmanWalkin on Feb 21, 2011 13:29:43 GMT -5
People with Healing Factors are involuntary limited matter manipulators, they convert available matter to repair damage. Have we ever seen them attempt to regenerate in a vacuum?
People like the Hulk, however, are actually energy manipulators who convert giant amount of gamma radiation into matter to heal or increase attributes.
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Killshot Caine
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Post by Killshot Caine on Feb 21, 2011 15:24:30 GMT -5
People with Healing Factors are involuntary limited matter manipulators, they convert available matter to repair damage. Have we ever seen them attempt to regenerate in a vacuum? People like the Hulk, however, are actually energy manipulators who convert giant amount of gamma radiation into matter to heal or increase attributes. Where did you get this from?
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spidey_17
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Post by spidey_17 on Feb 21, 2011 19:39:50 GMT -5
Wolverine is not the best example since i'm sure that the only reason he can withstood these kind of attacks are his bones. Deadpool should be better and i would agree with you at this point. =]
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spidey_17
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Post by spidey_17 on Feb 21, 2011 19:50:42 GMT -5
It's fucking retarded and entirely unscientific. Regen/healing factors don't have anything to do with durability and ability to take damage when you think about. Healing factors heal you from wounds, that much is true. But think about it an effect that is instant kill should not be stopped by regeneration, same thing with instant K.O. There's no time for the regeneration to take effect. Enemies uses that effect, you're dead, no time or anything. Your regen can't save you because the minute the effect is off you're dead or K.O that's why I usually argue that X martial artist can beat wolverine with enough skill/speed and striking power, because his regen shouldn't work again instantaneous effects. How do you know that his amazingly fast healing factor does not make that strike, instant?
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Post by Crom-Cruach on Feb 21, 2011 20:19:59 GMT -5
How do you know that his amazingly fast healing factor does not make that strike, instant? Oh come on, this question makes no sense... instantaneous = takes effect immediately. Wolverine's regen is isn't completely instantaneous, therefore it should not protect against instantaneous effects. Basic 1+1 logic. auto kill and K.O effects therefore should not at all be hampered by his regen
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spidey_17
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Post by spidey_17 on Feb 21, 2011 20:28:15 GMT -5
That's the point. His healing factor constantly working due to the poison of his adamantium bones. So shouldn't be basically still working even when someone attempts to strike him with an instant attack? So shouldn't that strike be countered? =]
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Post by Crom-Cruach on Feb 21, 2011 20:35:35 GMT -5
That's the point. His healing factor constantly working due to the poison of his adamantium bones. So shouldn't be basically still working even when someone attempts to strike him with an instant attack? So shouldn't that strike be countered? No because his regen is not instantaneous if it were, he could never bleed, we would never see cuts, bullet wounds, no force could make a wound. I really don;t see how you have trouble grasping what instantaneous means. Again: instantaneous = takes effect immediatelyHis regen is not instantaneous, he just regenerates wounds after they are done. It doesn't prevent them from actually being done or their effects from happening, therefore regardless of how fast he regens. If an effect is instantaneous it happens no ifs or buts Instant K.O strike, Logan is K.O instant death strike, Logan is dead.
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spidey_17
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Post by spidey_17 on Feb 21, 2011 20:42:24 GMT -5
But you have not addressed what i said. His healing factor always work. Every moment of the day to take care of the poison. Logically, now that i think it better, shouldn't most of his injuries be healed instantly, for that reason? =]
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Post by Crom-Cruach on Feb 21, 2011 20:50:23 GMT -5
His healing factor always work. Every moment of the day to take care of the poison. power that is constantly active is very different from having a power who's effects are instantaneous. Wolverine's power are always constantly active but they are not instantaneous in effect. Constantly active = always in effect as long as the condition creating the effect are not shut down instantaneous= takes effect immediately. Can't you see the difference? Having an always active regeneration power just means that your regeneration is always working. It still take a certain amount of time for a wound to be completely healed with it. We've seen wounds on Logan, he can bleed, have broken bones, etc. Therefore while this power is always active, the severity of the wounds will dictate how long it takes before he can be fully healed (Ergo it is not instant healing) That's why it takes more time for a lost hand to regrow then a finger, or for him to recover completely from near complete incineration, then a simple cigarette burn. So he has no protection against effects that are instantaneous and immediate, because there is no in between time were his regen can kick in to recover, because the effects happen when the action is done.
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spidey_17
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Post by spidey_17 on Feb 21, 2011 21:01:22 GMT -5
I see. But i think there is one more thing. There are attacks that can be instant KO. But should not his healing factor work fast enough to heal the affects of the nerve strike so he would not be KOed at all. At the very best thing, should not that only slow him down and get up fast enough to continue a fight like it was basically nothing? =]
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Post by Crom-Cruach on Feb 21, 2011 21:08:39 GMT -5
I see. But i think there is one more thing. There are attacks that can be instant KO. But should not his healing factor work fast enough to heal the affects of the nerve strike so he would not be KOed at all. At the very best thing, should not that only slow him down and get up fast enough to continue a fight like it was basically nothing? no because instantaneous = takes effect immediately. if it takes effect immediately, then no time passes between the action and the result, ergo his regeneration can't heal from it because for his regeneration to start acting the action must be done, then the effect takes place, then his regeneration heals from the effect, if he survives. in other words, for his regeneration to be useful against something, the effects can't be immediate, because his regeneration starts acting after the effect has happened. Therefore the effects still happens. -Instant K.O attack hits him: he still gets K.O, he might recover faster then a normal person, but the K.O still happens. -instant death attack: Logan is dead, since he must still be alive for his regeneration to work, he's just dead.
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spidey_17
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Post by spidey_17 on Feb 21, 2011 21:15:47 GMT -5
I'm talking about KO attacks. Logan's healing factor is one of the best. I know he can be affected by nerve strikes and such. I never argued that he is immune to these. But the affects of these attacks should easily be healed. For the very first moment that he is KOed, logically he should get up. He is affected, but nothing than can put him down for good. So these kind of attacks are basically useless.
Also i would like to know more about these instant death attacks. As far as i know for someone to be dead, his brain and heart should stop working. And as far as i know, this is something that can not happen immediately. =]
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Post by Crom-Cruach on Feb 21, 2011 21:25:08 GMT -5
I'm talking about KO attacks. Logan's healing factor is one of the best. I know he can be affected by nerve strikes and such. I never argued that he is immune to these. But the affects of these attacks should easily be healed. For the very first moment that he is KOed, logically he should get up. He is affected, but nothing than can put him down for good. So these kind of attacks are basically useless. What are talking about is again outside my point, if an effect is instant K.O then it will always happen, because his regen happens after the effect takes place. Afterward depending on how severe it is that will dictate how long it takes for him to recover. there is still a moment where his is K.O and that's what important in a fight, sufficiently fast and skilled characters can basically keep delivering K.O strike one after another and if each of them kicks in before he can recover from the last one, he's beaten he won't win because for him to successfully stop this kind of onslaught he would have to be able to regen instantly which he doesn't. Also i would like to know more about these instant death attacks. As far as i know for someone to be dead, his brain and heart should stop working. And as far as i know, this is something that can not happen immediately. =] sure it can, medical system shock is when a wound is so severe, the entire body temporarily shuts down bodily functions because of the overload of the wound to the system. when system shock happens there is a brief moment where no body function is active, when that happens, if the wound is a lethal one, the subject is dead. That's why you can instantly kill someone with ripping out their hearts or completely desintergrating their head. Regeneration does not stop system shock.
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