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Post by Erik-El on Feb 21, 2011 23:43:12 GMT -5
I think it's been well-established that, comics on the whole, fail at science. everywhere. all the time. ever. doesn't wolverine's healing factor have some supernatural shit to it? where, if he were to die, he goes into purgatory and fights some guy and if he wins then he continues living or something? somebody told me that's how he comes back after getting totally blown up while hunting down the guy that blew up stamford in civil war. could help to explain the whole "regen doesn't negate death" thing. cause it's *JAZZHANDS* MAGIC *JAZZHANDS* That story was from Logan Dies and it was so much crap the writer that took over immediately after ignored it. In fact, everyone ignores it as the story said that if Wolverine dies again, he will not come back. He has died a few times since. |
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Post by Erik-El on Feb 21, 2011 23:45:14 GMT -5
You are getting hung up on the title. The healing factor does not just heal. It provides his body with anything it needs. Growing new tissue from nothing? Done. Supplying cells with energy so he does not drown? Pow! Starting a newly grown heart all by itself? Bang! -growing a new heart is healing and not instantaneous, but fine let's say he heals that fast (I don't think so because if it took more then 5 seconds then he would be dead) But that is not the problem, cells are incapable of producing oxygen, energy or any like that. Cells process such things and replicate to repair tissue and organs It is simply impossible for cells to do what marvel claims Logan's can, cells do not work that way. The human body does not work that way period. The healing factor is not a cell or even a collection of cells. It is some kind of mutant power that is able to provide his body with both energy and matter from who the fuck knows where. |
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Post by Crom-Cruach on Feb 21, 2011 23:48:02 GMT -5
The healing factor is not a cell or even a collection of cells. It is some kind of mutant power that is able to provide his body with both energy and matter from who the fuck knows where. unless said power reality warps then it is impossible for him to have such a power that does what it does now. Healing and keeping the body alive from oxygen deprivation, lack of food and energy, etc are entirely dependent on organ and cellular activity. Or it's magic. Because it is impossible by basic biology period. |
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Post by Erik-El on Feb 21, 2011 23:50:10 GMT -5
The healing factor is not a cell or even a collection of cells. It is some kind of mutant power that is able to provide his body with both energy and matter from who the fuck knows where. unless said power reality warps then it is impossible for him to have such a power that does what it does now. Healing and keeping the body alive from oxygen deprivation, lack of food and energy, etc are entirely dependent on organ and cellular activity. Or it's magic. Because it is impossible by basic biology period. Even without the healing factor, Wolverine does not have basic human biology. It is not magic. Well, at least not as magical as say, lifting a building with your mind or using said mind to convert matter into energy and vise-versa. |
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spidey_17
The Unstoppable Ledgernaut
With Great Power Comes Great.... suffering?
Posts: 4,961
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Post by spidey_17 on Feb 21, 2011 23:54:20 GMT -5
I think what Erik is trying to say is that whet he cells does what they do, because these are his powers.
Having ice powers or shooting blasts from your eyes does not make more sense than this.
=]
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Post by Crom-Cruach on Feb 21, 2011 23:54:52 GMT -5
Even without the healing factor, Wolverine does not have basic human biology. I didn't say basic human biology, I said basic biology. As in biology that applies to all flesh. and in such laws, specific cells and organs perform specific tasks and none of them can produce energy or prevent the need for the basics every living being needs to survive. |
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Post by Crom-Cruach on Feb 21, 2011 23:55:44 GMT -5
I think what Erik is trying to say is that whet he cells does what they do, because these are his powers. Having ice powers or shooting blasts from your eyes does not make more sense than this. =] not it doesn't at all, but them 99% of mutant powers make no sense. |
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Post by Erik-El on Feb 21, 2011 23:57:24 GMT -5
Even without the healing factor, Wolverine does not have basic human biology. I didn't say basic human biology, I said basic biology. As in biology that applies to all flesh. and in such laws, specific cells and organs perform specific tasks and none of them can produce energy or prevent the need for the basics every living being needs to survive. Well it is a good thing that his mutant power, much like many mutant powers, is not part of his biology then. |
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Post by Crom-Cruach on Feb 21, 2011 23:59:20 GMT -5
Well it is a good thing that his mutant power, much like many mutant powers, is not part of his biology then. problem is that it is, it's a mutation, in other words, entirely biological. That's what a mutation is, a biological evolutionary drift. His powers are therefore biological. |
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Post by Erik-El on Feb 22, 2011 0:01:42 GMT -5
Well it is a good thing that his mutant power, much like many mutant powers, is not part of his biology then. problem is that it is, it's a mutation, in other words, entirely biological. That's what a mutation is, a biological evolutionary drift. His powers are therefore biological. The X-gene is the mutation. Not the powers. |
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Post by Crom-Cruach on Feb 22, 2011 0:05:14 GMT -5
they alter biological functions, therefore they have to act on a biological level, unless it's a reality warping or magical power. There is no way around it scientifically speaking.
Mutant powers simply do not work 99% of the time within any scientific logic (just like 99% of non magic based super-heroes)
arguing other wise and being right is impossible.
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Post by Erik-El on Feb 22, 2011 0:06:50 GMT -5
they alter biological functions, therefore they have to act on a biological level, unless it's a reality warping or magical power. There is no way around it scientifically speaking. Mutant powers simply do not work 99% of the time within any scientific logic (just like 99% of non magic based super-heroes) arguing other wise and being right is impossible. The X-gene does not always alter biological function. Sometimes it does, sometimes all it does is allow you to access power you should not be able to access, some of which are not even physical. |
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Post by Crom-Cruach on Feb 22, 2011 0:09:09 GMT -5
The X-gene does not always alter biological function. Sometimes it does, sometimes all it does is allow you to access power you should not be able to access, some of which are not even physical. unfortunately that is just plain impossible. There is no scientific basis on how a person could have the power to turn into water or sand, or become intangible with something provided by a mutant gene, nothing at all, genes do not work that way, period. |
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Post by Erik-El on Feb 22, 2011 0:14:44 GMT -5
The X-gene does not always alter biological function. Sometimes it does, sometimes all it does is allow you to access power you should not be able to access, some of which are not even physical. unfortunately that is just plain impossible. There is no scientific basis on how a person could have the power to turn into water or sand, or become intangible with something provided by a mutant gene, nothing at all, genes do not work that way, period. Right. I agree. But these genes have given these individuals access to power that would otherwise be impossible. Sometimes the result of the gene is a physical mutation like lizard skin but that is a side effect of the gene for that particular person. Using Jean Grey as an example, her telekinesis is NOT part of her biology. Besides, science itself is always in flux. What you say is impossible today, scientists will be scratching their heads tomorrow muttering, "Huh. Well I'll be damned. It is possible." |
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Post by Crom-Cruach on Feb 22, 2011 0:19:54 GMT -5
Right. I agree. But these genes have given these individuals access to power that would otherwise be impossible. Sometimes the result of the gene is a physical mutation like lizard skin but that is a side effect of the gene for that particular person. Using Jean Grey as an example, her telekinesis is NOT part of her biology. except again, genes cannot under any science that is proven do anything except permit and fulfill biological functions. The X-gene is a flagrant middle finger to science. Besides, science itself is always in flux. What you say is impossible today, scientists will be scratching their heads tomorrow muttering, "Huh. Well I'll be damned. It is possible." actually science, especially physics hasn't done anything close to all but tiny leaps for the last 30 or 50 years. Right now theoretical physics are stuck over the problems of the infinitely small like string theory, sub-atomic theory and the incredibly large like astrophysics. Biology's biggest necessary leaps of understanding and knowledge has likewise been found as far as science can evaluate. |
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Post by Erik-El on Feb 22, 2011 0:23:21 GMT -5
@crom:
Can you point me to any character in comics that is not a giant middle finger to science?
The thing with science is everything you said is true, until it is not true anymore. That is how science works. It is an arrogant move to think that we already know all there is to know about any given subject, especially science.
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Decoy Elite
The Unstoppable Ledgernaut
I've seen things you wouldn't believe
Posts: 4,854
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Post by Decoy Elite on Feb 22, 2011 0:26:56 GMT -5
@crom: Can you point me to any character in comics that is not a giant middle finger to science? J.Jonah Jameson. ;D |
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Post by Crom-Cruach on Feb 22, 2011 0:28:04 GMT -5
Can you point me to any character in comics that is not a giant middle finger to science? magic based characters don't give the middle finger to science at all and characters with very low-key biological based powers as well as a few of the less outlandish technology based heroes. It is an arrogant move to think that we already know all there is to know about any given subject, especially science. I never said we know everything or that we have nothing left to learn. I'm saying constant analysis and counter analysis have so far proven the value of what we do know and what biggest leaps are necessary (and if we've made them) Right now the places were we haven't solved the problem are the ones I mentioned in my above post and that is where there is need/ we are researching, that is the infinitely small and infinitely big, everything in between is mostly figured out. |
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Post by Erik-El on Feb 22, 2011 0:34:43 GMT -5
Can you point me to any character in comics that is not a giant middle finger to science? magic based characters don't give the middle finger to science at all and characters with very low-key biological based powers as well as a few of the less outlandish technology based heroes. It is an arrogant move to think that we already know all there is to know about any given subject, especially science. I never said we know everything or that we have nothing left to learn. I'm saying constant analysis and counter analysis have so far proven the value of what we do know and what biggest leaps are necessary (and if we've made them) Right now the places were we haven't solved the problem are the ones I mentioned in my above post and that is where there is need/ we are researching, that is the infinitely small and infinitely big, everything in between is mostly figured out. Actually, magic based characters by definition give middle fingers to science. And over the course of our analysis and counter analysis, we still cannot safely nor surely claim we know all the facts about science. Even the things you claim we have "figured out" I will bet dollar to dime we will be discovering shit we never knew was possible in a few decades. Decoy Elite: Nope! With how many cigars he sucks down, that man has a super human biology for sure. Did you see him lay the lumps on Spider-Man a while back? |
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Decoy Elite
The Unstoppable Ledgernaut
I've seen things you wouldn't believe
Posts: 4,854
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Post by Decoy Elite on Feb 22, 2011 0:38:34 GMT -5
Erik-El: Curses! I'll figure someone out.
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